Toward a (Sub) Cultural Literacy Hot

Nice, I recognize most of the references, not all of them though. But do you think it is really a defining canon of an Ameritrash culture, or not rather a Trash or Geek-culture in general? Then on the other hand are Ameritrash games only one branch of Trash culture, which includes foremost Movies and TV series, but also comics and music (what would Ameritrash music be?).

You could maybe add Diablo (PC game), Ash/Necronomicon/Boomstick and Brisco County Jr. (really, include Bruce Campbell somewhere) and Danger Girls.

What's the link to your Blog, anyway?

Cultural Literacy was a required text in my high school gifted classes...the teacher was a huge fan of Hirsch, so we all had to get the book...and it is a pretty great precis of important cultural knowledge, at least from an academic standpoint.

But this...this is something unto its own. Paul, let's you and me write a book.

You had both Lee and Cushing on there along with Doc Savage, Bettie Page and Alan Moore...you're definitely on the right track as far as I'm concerned!

John Carpenter HAS to be on here...hell, separate entries for all of his films up through In the Mouth of Madness wouldn't be off the mark.

Hi, folks. Thanks for reading the piece. I took the blog down a while back, but this was the only piece worth a damn on there anyway.

As far as the trash/geek culture thing goes, Ubarose summed up exactly what I was going to say.

A book, Michael? You're on! And John Carpenter ...of course. He warrants inclusion for The Thing and Escape From NY alone...

Shellhead: Basil Poledouris was the guy behind the Conan the Barbarian soundtrack...

Interesting question. I think I agree that Ameritrash game culture is a sub culture of a larger Trash, for lack of a better term, culture. I don't want to say Geek culture, since most readers here, through their long association with BGG, have come to associate the term Geek with the larger gaming culture. In my face to face, personal experience, people who self identify as members of the Geek Game culture, do not always identify as members of the Trash culture. I have found that by asking other gamers about their other cultural interests -books, movies, TV, etc. - you can fairly acurately predict their tastes in games.

Ameritrash games are, for the most part, simulations of things found in Trash culture. They allow players to participate in the mythologies that they love. If you're not into those mythologies, the games hold no interest other than the mechanics of the game. Since the mechanics of the game are essentially thematic and support the simulation, they often won't be particularly interesting to a non-trash gamer, and sometimes can be downright bewildering.

What about Dr. Demento? Or is that too Euro-centric?

--Mike L.

"Your clothes, give them to me..NOW!"

Basil Poledouris?

Difficult to say where 'trash' culture ends. Why doesn't your list include (superhero) comics and cartoons (Beavis & Buthead, South Park) for example?

I'd also include Pulp Fiction, or Tarantino himself as one of the minders of the B(C)-movie tradition.

Or the likes of Vandamme and Segal (Schwarzenegger is in there through Conan). As a trash icon I would also include Chuck Norris as a class unto himself.

I feel the best way to describe trash culture is its quotability. If 17 year old boys quote it to great length amongst each other, its definitely trash.

Leading also to the question: if thrash culture makes such good theme, why isn't there a Kill Bill game, or one featuring Vandamme, Segal etc?

Meaning to say: great post, Paul!

Wonderful list/idea

Might I suggest...

"The spice must flow"

That is kind of a problem- the parameters have to be very clearly defined. Otherwise, you're looking at a million volume piece of work.

It really requires some smart editing. Do you include "Comic Books" (too broad) or "Gwen Stacy" (way too specific)? Does Stan Lee get the nod at the expense of Jack Kirby? You have to find the really significant pieces and a certain range of specificty. I would include "Robert E. Howard" as an entry, but not necessarily each individual title from his bibliography. However, I would have a separate entry for CONAN THE BARBARIAN as a film.

Some of it does come down to authorial taste...for example, I'd put entries for Anime (as a general topic), Hayao Miayazaki, Leiji Matumoto, VAMPIRE HUNTER D, SPEED RACER, EVANGELION and AKIRA in there but not a single other title out of the bajillion other piece-of-shit pedophile anime junk that poison many a young mind.

There's so much that could be added it's ridiculous- Jim Henson, Larry Elmore, BIG TROUBLE IN LITTLE CHINA, the Atari 2600, The Simpsons, Tim Burton, GI Joe...

But think about it- Hirsch condensed the culture of Western civilization into an absolute need-to-know selection.

But think about it- Hirsch condensed the culture of Western civilization into an absolute need-to-know selection.

But he left out Rowdy Roddy Piper.

"Hirsch condensed the culture of Western civilization into an absolute need-to-know selection."

Let me me qualify that: US or North American civilisation. Very little european or even English trash. Understandable, but not entirely fair. Unless you claim trash for North Americans only.

I don't get it.

But he left out Rowdy Roddy Piper.

I tried to get him to add RRP...I beat him up for 20 minutes in an alley but he just wouldn't put on the damn glasses that would reveal RRP as the cultural titan we all know he is...HELL COMES TO FROGTOWN, let alone his wrestling career, will one day be viewed as the salad days of human culture.

Let me me qualify that: US or North American civilisation.

There's a fair amount of non-US culture in there...but I do agree that the focus is here. I guess it's a question of scope.

I don't get it.

Would you if we added DRAGONLORDS to the list?

Agh, no edit posts...add your own italics...

"Hirsch condensed the culture of Western civilization into an absolute need-to-know selection."

Let me me qualify that: US or North American civilisation. Very little european or even English trash. Understandable, but not entirely fair. Unless you claim trash for North Americans only.

Hirsch: civilization. Hedrick: trash. Two different dudes.

Yeah, Hedrick would include SORORITY BABES IN THE SLIMEBALL BOWL-O-RAMA...Hirsch wouldn't.

A wee bit heavy on the Howard and S&S, but whatever floats your boat. Stick 'Doc' Smith in there and you've got something.

<whinge mode="bitch">If you're going to reference GW then how about an entry or two for the grogs. 'ZOC' or 'Dunnigan' <whinge>

And Biehn over Arnie? Please.

Well, I guess I fail --- I only knew 18 of those references. And I'm old enough to remember Watergate (if barely).

It seems as if this list trends towards the marginal edges of what might be included in such a list. While any such list should have boundaries and limits, if it excludes categories that might also be "popular" then it often also fails.

Crap, bollixed up the close tag in the joke. I suck.

Paul isn't excluding popular culture. I believe his intention is that this is in addition to both general and popular literacy.

Also, a little back ground on E.D. Hirsch, may help:

"While giving tests of relative readability at two colleges in Virginia, he discovered that, while the relative readability of a text was an important factor in determining comprehension, an even more important factor was background knowledge. Students at the University of Virginia were able to understand a passage on Grant and Lee, while students at a community college struggled with the passage, apparently because they lacked basic understanding of the Civil War. This and related discoveries led Hirsch to formulate the concept of cultural literacy -- the idea that reading comprehension requires not just formal decoding skills but also wide-ranging background knowledge."

If we apply this to Ameritrash games, it means that certain background knowledge facilitates our ability to play certain games. That knowledge need not be exhaustive. For example, you do not need to be familiar with every B movie referenced in Betrayal on House on the Hill, but some familiarity with movies of that type will enhance your experience of the game, and also make it easier to play.

I should be on that list.

Basil Pouldouris also did the soundtrack for The Hunt for Red October.

BP also did Robocop and Starship Troopers.

What....no

BRAAAIIIINNSS!
(Have to have Dan O'Bannon represented.)

And The Cramps as well.

And the Aurora Torture Chamber.

Hey, does anyone know what's going on over at the Geek? I posted a longish session report and it seems to be lost in the 1's and 0's....

Maybe I getting punished because I'm not bowing down before the altar of Agricola.

BP also has these bad boys:

Twilight Zone (80s TV series)
Iron Eagle
Spellbinder

And two more that I consider just great soundtracks in general:

Les Miserables
Lonesome Dove

I have to admit I don't really understand what this is trying to achieve (being British I feel our "cultural literacy" has never been a problem).

It looks to me more like a role-player's CL and less like a FATtie's; I only say that because I became familiar with much of what's there through RPG's. Admittedly I'm only familiar with between half and two-thirds of the list, but unless we're encompassing the RPG into AT culture (and I can accept it may be the case at least partially) I think the list might need some work.

It is hard to make a comprehensive list of what references expand your enjoyment of gaming....I do know there are quite a few quotes that can be pulled out on a regular basis...

Conan and Aliens are probably the best movies to quote from while gaming. But don't forget Rocky IV's "I will crush you", although that movie probably fails otherwise as helping your cultural gaming literacy.

What no Monty Python???????

NOOOOBODY EXPECTS you to know Monty Python!

Jesus christ, I knew when I saw that guy's avatar/screenname we were in for it...

You think its going to be a running gag?

Interesting...

If "cultural literacy" as it applies to F:AT tropes and themes is intended as litmus test, I guess I fail. In some ways the list exemplifies trivia and as Barnes notes, authorial opinion trumps.

I don't know soundtrack composers and don't care enough about the the directorial efforts of B-grade sci fi to have learned many of those references even if I have seen the films in questions. Nonetheless I feel like I am following the jist of most everything going on here. I guess this is where I would throw out my own references that I would expect would be instantly recognizable by the folks here.

So...

Why not:
Michael Moorcock
Elric
Venger
Warduke
Mask (as in the toy line)
Tomax and/or Xamot
Illuminati
Robert Anton Wilson
PC (as in Player Character...)
Can interpret and act upon instantly: 2d6+1
Can name at least 3 works by Jules Verne

As much as participation in site is a sub-subculture it would also be interesting to look for terms/concepts purely isolated to this site
Concave
DoaM

Man, I feel ignorant. I don't know half of the stuff you guys are talking about. Anyone feel like filling me in on:

"Amok Time" (episode)
Bolland, Brian
Bran Mak Morn
character sheet
Cthulhu
King Ghidora
"Shadow Out of Time, The" (short story)
Verhoeven, Paul
"Tower of the Elephant, The" (short story)

Who is Warduke? Tomax and Xamot? Venger?

And I fail at any anime beyond Akira, Ghost in the Shell, and Cowboy Be-Bop.

With all this ignorance, I feel like maybe I should go play some Puerto Rico, grow a hideously long beard, quit trimming my fingernails and gain fifty pounds.

Wait - I know character sheet and Cthulhu. I just accidentally left those in there.

It's not a test. Just the author's starting point for the conversation. The specifics of his list may not be the best, but I think the concept is valid.

A while back we played Ticket to Ride with my step-mom. Afterwards she commented that she liked the game because it was about real things that she understood. She knew what a train was, and what a train station was. She also said that the previous week KingPut had her play some outer space game (Battlestar Galactica) that she found very difficult to learn and play because it was about make-believe things that she didn't understand or know what they were.

What, no THAC0?

No % in Lair? (Or old D&D % in Liar). ;D

Well, it was quite a surprise to see this little article show up again. Beyond that -- what Ubarose said today. The specific names and concepts on the list are very subjective, of course: not everyone is my age (mid-40s) with my particular geek background (s-f/fantasy/wargaming/RPGs). As I said three years ago, "Take it with however many grains of salt you wish."

THAC0!!!!

Venger is the evil wizard from D&D the Cartoon -- a box set well worth owning.

Warduke is a warrior/bounty hunter from Greyhawk. He had an awesome action figure and horse in the early 80s.

Man, I loved that as a kid. Not often you could by nightmares in the early 80s -- right before the Right Wingers tore into MotU and D&D the cartoon

Didn't know "Amok Time", but the episode clarifier gave it away as Star trek related. Would Khan Noonien Singh be too obvious?

I'd add either

Kirby, Jack or
Ditko, Steve

plus a Star Wars quote.
plus "You are likely to be eaten by a grue"

That Warduke figure is excellent. I always wanted one. Didn't they have one that could shoot a skull off his shield?

I love that the figure is part of a Evil " gift set". I love the quotes!!!

Tomas and Xamot were the twin spy's from GI Joe that stupidly fell and felt one anothers pain . Classic GI Joe was one would get punched and the other one would fall. I suppose I could have also put in Zartan ( GI Joe). Or trotted out some Masters of the Univerese character. ( man- faces anyone?)

Uh make that Tomas. Stupid touch screen typing

Dammit, TOMAX

And one more makes me dominate the front page latest posts list. YEAH!

Using my own yardstick, I miss 16 of those 40 or so. Another 3-5 are familiar, but I can't quite place them. Agree with Barnes about the John Carpenter. I didn't see any Alien/Aliens references here, nor Mad Max, unless I'm overlooking. Obviously the list is pretty subjective and could include much more, but I like what you've done.

And, well, ditto what Uba said.

I agree, the Australiatrash of Mad Max, The Road Warrior, and many other drive in Ozsploitation flicks seem to be ommitted by this list.

I'd argue along with Barnes that stuff like Akira and Ghost In The Shell deserve to be on the list, but there's certainly a BLATANT oversight that ignores a SIGNIFICANT part of my childhood.

Dragon Ball Bloody Zed. I mean, if you're gonna say Akira and Ghost in the shell and Evangelion are Ameritrash, why overlook Akira Toriyama's epic retelling of Romance of the Three Kingdoms?

It just seems a bit ageist to me to omit that from the anime canon, especially since Miyazaki passes muster. I'm kind of appalled that something as significant, yet recent as Scott Pilgrim Vs. The World isn't on the list. It may be barely a year old, but I swear to you Barnesy - in twenty years people my age will be watching that over and over again like you guys used to watch Hawk The Slayer.

Highlander (the first one) also needs mentioning for its influence on D&D culture. I'd probably argue that The Sandman comics and the Starman series are pretty Ameritrashy, as Sandman is mythology as represented by living beings, whereas Starman is a modernised take on the superhero that is everything from Steampunk to Alternate History to general cop show type stuff.

And how the hell did you overlook the Ameritrashy majesty of... The Man With No Name trilogy?

1-2-3-4-FIVE-6-7-8-9-10... ELEVEN TWELVE! ... look at your man, now look at me ... yabba dabba do ... zoinks ... live long and prosper ... won't you be my neighbour... go ahead, make my day ... where's the beef? ... redrum ... There happens to be a lot about me that you don't know, Mr. Smarty Man ... They speak English in What?! ... Is it me, or is it him? It's him, right? ... Sorry Shorty ... ... Are you the police? No, ma'am. We're musicians ... The Force is strong with you young Skywalker, but you are not a Jedi yet.

And of course this:

"I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some . . . people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our, uh, education like such as in South Africa and, uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and, I believe that they should, our education over HERE in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, or, uh, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future, for our children."

The relationship between a gamer's age and his or her gaming culture would be an interesting thing to explore -- especially (IMO) in light of a very smart observation KenB made last month:

When he wrote that, I wondered a. when a new site would spin off F:AT, and b. what led to that divide. Reading some of the new comments suggests it may be something as simple as age...with all its surrounding "culture."

Just a thought.

Interesting; I missed that quote by Ken. As it turns out, I am firmly on both sides of that divide.

Oh yeah, you can definitely be on both sides--I am firmly a fan of both as well.

It was a great insight, Ken, and I was sorry to see it drowned out by all the noise about the Earth Reborn character cards.

Personally, I lean slightly more toward the Magic Realm/Dune/etc. side of the things than the other -- but perhaps that's because gaming was heavy, chrome-covered, etc. in the late '70s/early '80s, when I was becoming "literate" in it (to use the terms of the original article). The article was originally written as a way of looking at the difference between ATers and Eurogamers, but I think it could apply very easily to these two types of Ameritrash gamers.

I was just thinking that cultural literacy is what makes some games more accessible than others. For example a person who has basic American cultural literacy will know something about the American Civil War, therefore a game like "Battle Cry" would be more accessible than say something like "Runewars."

"War of the Rings" seems like it would be incomprehensible to a person who had never read the books or seen the movies. I personally know many people who have done neither, but I'd be surprised if that were true of anyone on F:AT.

How much does our personal cultural knowledge impact our gaming preferences? Personally, I like C&C: Ancients, but I have a lot of trouble with Memoir '44. My knowledge of modern warfare is so laughably inadequate, that I have trouble remembering how the different units move and what they can and can not do. As someone pointed out elsewhere on the site, "Merchants and Marauders" has mechanics similar to "Runebound" and "Arkham Horror." I know gamers who have zero interest in either of the two later games, but who enjoy M&M. Maybe it's simply because M&M is based on common cultural literacy - people know what a Man o' War is, whereas a Hound of Tindalos, not so much.

And I've seen the same thing happen in reverse. Many of my gamer buddies have no interest in any game that does not make use of some kind of cultural knowledge, whether that knowledge is of history or of Lovecraft. To them, the idea of something like Power Grid is as bizarre as Doom might be to someone who grew up playing only German resource management games.

Interesting stuff -- thanks for reposting the article!

You should probably throw in the following

1) The best late night pizza joint in various towns with a major con.
2) The best way to cure a hangover after drinking all night with FAT members (so I have heard at least).
3) How to make $5 last four days for food at Gen Con so you can spend the $500 you brought on new games.
4) Ways to tell your husband/wife how a new Geek Chic gaming table will solve all of "our" problems
5) Ways to use cognitive dissonance to convince yourself that $200 is a good deal to buy game X that is out of print.

:-)