Barnestorming #9874.4- Spartacus in Review, Dishonored, Cerebus, Arrow Hot

What I get you for your birthday? A wake up call, brother:

As to Cerebus, I really dug Cerebus up until the "Mothers and Daughters" story arc which I think is when the crazy started to make itself known. Man I used to love the cover art on those comics. And the letters page was legendary. Talk about Emo before emo, and goth before goth. Confused teenagers rambling before the inter-tubes.

So anyway, Cerebus was one of my favorite comics of all time.

Happy birthday! You were one day shy of sharing a birthday with Kirk Cameron and Luciano Pavarotti (which I know because mine is tomorrow).

I'm so glad that Spartacus was given a good treatment and not some crappy cash-in, like a Spartacus: The DVD Board Game or something. And there's a Jupiter's Cock card?! Insta-buy.

The first four books of Cerebus (and spots in later books) are among the best works ever done in comics. It's a shame that his insanity caused fans to flock away from him.

His new series (Glamourpuss) is spotty but fascinating and totally original.

Yeah, this is kind of why I brought up Cerebus a few weeks back, he's been back in the news for the Comixology thing and plenty other stuff, including in particular a really, really sad book contract negotiation that he decided to have VIA PUBLIC INTERNET FORUM. It went from bad to worse. But Cerebus is a great comic, and if you start with High Society, you've got something like at least 100 good issues in front of you, which is just amazing. And there is plenty of good stuff even in the back, "crazy" half of the series, it's just also interspersed with awful, boring, or hateful parts (as is the first half, honestly, just not as much).

Charles Burns' X'ed Out: part 2 just came out, "The Hive". There will be a total of three parts. I haven't read any of it yet, though, I'll wait for the eventual 3-in-1 edition. Art looks awesome, though, duh.

New Avengers???!? Green Lantern/Green Arrow???? Why waste time with this garbage when you could be finishing Doom Patrol? I knew I'd regret suggesting that Morrison/Millar Flash run, too. It's fun, though.

Arrow sounds dumb, but then the idea of doing a Green Arrow TV show sounds dumb in the first place. Of course he kills people, he's an archer. Except that yeah, in the comic, his arrows are all gimmick-arrows, so.........I dunno, it's just a dumb concept for a superhero. It's superhero silliness but without any of the BENEFITS of superhero silliness. Green Lantern might be a silly concept, but in exchange for that silly concept you get to have awesome giant green things and crazy space-aliens and flying and I mean REALLY crazy space aliens like that diamond-thing-with-legs. Green Arrow, you get boxing-glove arrows and...and...folderol about social injustice and junkies and helping the man with the purple skin instead of the man with the black skin?

Awesome. Did you get me the phone books for my birthday, JJ? I'm so excited!

Yeah, even in those two issues I read, there is some really tremendous comics writing and artwork in there...Cerberus playing cards with the Fleagles...very well done stuff.

It's funny because you can already see the self-aggrandizing megalomania if you look for it in the early self-marketing stuff. There's definitely some hustlin' going on.

Spartacus is most definitely NOT a cash-in game. You could take the Spartacus photographs (all those supple, well-oiled men...) out of it and it would still be great. They really made an effort to do a _good_ game, and it's appreciated. If they ever lose the license, it wouldn't be hard to retool it for a less specific game.

Repo, I don't find that very funny because I'm ALREADY DEAD. How dare you.

I had to take a break from Doom Patrol. It's on the schedule for next week.

I _like_ some superhero trash...I had a couple of issues of New Avengers, I figured I'd take a look. I'm sorry that I did, OK? It's not like I'm reading Avengers versus X-Men! :-P

Green Lantern/Green Arrow is worth reading a couple of issues because of its quaint politics and there is a certain historical value to them. I would never want to read the full run or anything, though. I freaking HOWLED after that dude's speech about helping the purple man, the orange man, the blue man, but not the black man. That is PURE white whine right there. I'm about as leftist as it gets, but damn, that is some silly-ass shit. But not any more than some of the politics in protest punk.

Sims had a nasty contract issue aired out in a public forum??? What is he, a board game designer? Was it on BGG?

I dunno, I have a soft spot for both archer-heroes (Hawkeye too) because I like archery so much. They are really, really dumb ideas for superheroes though, I agree. Like in the Avengers movie...how do you partner a guy with a bow with the god of thunder?

Here's the Sim contract negotiation:
http://www.tcj.com/dave-sim-responds-to-the-fantagraphics-offer/

You can do searches for "Dave Sim says" or "Kim Thompson says" for the relevant back and forth. I mean, it's bizarre right from the outset, with Sim using the words "New York Times" in every other sentence, and having this bizarre idea that it would be a good idea to start a new Cerebus collection with like issue #200 in the middle of doing a bizarre F. Scott Fitzgerald impression. He never at any point budges on that idea, or even acknowledges that *everyone* else thinks it should start at or near the beginning. He thinks the New York Times would love it, or maybe they would like him doing Hemingway more, because according to him the NYT only secretly likes Fitzgerald or something?

And then there's his infamous petition ("sign here if you believe Dave Sim is not a misogynist, if you don't he'll never speak to you again"), which ended his friendships with Jeff Smith, Chester Brown, and I'm sure many more...

The fact that he comes off as a somewhat megalomaniacal self-promoting hustler early on, I mean, that not only makes sense, but it's necessary, and kind of admirable. It's incredible that he was able to sustain himself for his life on *self-publishing* a black and white comic about an aardvark that eventually went way way off the deep end. The guy worked his ass off for every dollar. Every new reader that followed it through to the end was another $500 or so for him, and every reader that gave up was that many fewer dollars for him.

Happy Birthday. Life begins at 'insert your new age'.

Just started Dishonored (even though Americans can't spell honour) on the PC and what great fun. No spoilers though because the plot is great.

X Com is fun, not the same as the original (of course) but still quite fun and you get attached to the guys and gals. Love the 1st person POV of running for cover and I really like the emphasis on cover in general. For a turn based game, its quite cool. Having fun chucking grenades around and blasting plasma guys (that look like vampires with green guns) into green poisonous dust. Very amusing research chick with a German accent. 'Zo commander, should ve start research on ze aleen corpses?'. "Whatever you say, darlin'"

Most importantly 'Lay smoke and use overwatch, you dick'

Thanks for putting me on to Morrison. Really enjoying the gigantic Invisibles book and working through Doom Patrol.

Your blubber pun/joke almost made me vomit.

Thanks for the head's up on Dishonoured, I had dismissed it after reading a lacklustre review. I love stealth type games in general I think.

I can't wait to hear about Forza Horizon. It is the best demo I have played in months. The open world thing felt brilliant and I love the collectability aspect of scouring the map for roads and signs to demolish. What a way to turn a franchise on its side!

..oh and the XCom demo was one of the worst I played in a while.

Thirsty, it's funny you bring up the Yank issue...if there's one big disappointment with the game, it's that there's no English accents. They very, very clearly should have used British voices and not American ones.

That is absolutely true about Sim, Stout. I think in some way all of that support ephemera in the new digital edition is a way of him saying "look what I done...on my own". Why else would you publically print invoices from distributors ordering 5000 copies of Cerebus #24? It's definitely something to admire and respect, that's for sure.

A friend of mine has that "official Cerebus toy"...I wonder how much those are worth now...

But yeah...motheragod...he writes "New York Times" something like 25 times in that document. That's like, seriously crazy person writing.

I think you might like Dishonored, Barney. Better hurry and play it before CODBLOPSII.

According to my calendar, today's National Coming Out Day. So yeah, happy birthday man.

I was curious about Dishonored, I'm usually a fan of Bethesda titles. Now I can't wait to check it out. Seems they've avoided the laundry list pitfalls of Skyrim.

HA! And I reviewed probably the most homoerotic game on the market after Steel Driver. Talk about timing!

Dishonored really isn't much like a Bethesda game at all, other than a couple of glitchy bits. And even then, it's probably the most solid code they've ever shipped. It's very much like a late 1990s, early 2000s PC adventure FPS. Which is a GREAT thing.

Is there any way to play Dishonored in 3rd-person? I'm one of those sorry saps who can't even look at videos of 1st-person games without getting nauseous.

I made it through Skyrim in 3rd-person mode, but most FPS don't offer the option.

Also, XCOM is very good.

Since my new hobby of home maintenance has been keeping me busy and made me a regular at the local hardware store this last year, I have become insanely picky about boardgame purchases. Aside from 1st edition Dune and some Death Angel expansions, I have bought no new boardgames in over a year. But this new Spartacus game sounds like exactly the kind of game that I would enjoy and yet also different from everything that I already have. So I will be buying Spartacus soon, and also finally get King of Tokyo.

No, unfortunately, Dishonored is only 1st person. If it matters, it's much more slowly paced than most FPS games. There's lots of standing still and waiting.

Yeah, Shell...Spartacus really is unique. The disparate parts aren't particularly novel- take that, auction, tactical fight- but the way it all fits together is really smart. Plus, it's nice when a game gives you the tools to be a total dick...and encourages you to do so.

Three hours does seem like an awful long time for this type of game.

Dude, that thing you're linking to is setting my security sniffer into panic mode.

S.

good to hear about Spartacus, I remember being surprised when the Kickstarter game "Kings of Combat" was it called failed miserably to hit its target when you would think this kind of game would appeal, but like you say, it needs to play pretty quickly and get to the action

what do you think of that older game, is it Gladiator? I keep thinking about acquiring some of the older AH stuff, or printing out the DVDs I have of it all. But isn't there also a cool Steve Jackson game "Melee" or something thats supposed to do gladiator style hex combat pretty good?

Don't link to the Can't Stop app review by one of your fellow staffers or anything.

http://www.gamezebo.com/games/cant-stop/review

Spartacus sounds amazing. Any idea on how much play time those options might strip off, and whether they spoil the basic nature of the game? And does it matter if no-one playing has ever seen the TV show?

And happy birthday. What the fuck are you doing wasting it hanging around here?

Oh yeah Barnes, Happy Name day, the phone books are forthcoming.

One of my buddies who writes underground comics here in Vancouver went to Hamilton in hopes of meeting Dave Sim and he told me: "We went into this bar I heard he frequented... a few nights in a row, hoping to meet him. He eventually showed up and we sat in the corner pushing each other to go talk to him and wondering how we could start the conversation. Turns out we didn't need to approach him to get him talking. Part way through the night he just got up and starting yelling at everyone in the bar. It was more entertaining then actually approaching him would have been."

That's not verbatim, it's just what I remember.

There is no reason to neglect the first Cerebus book, it's funny and shows a man who is much more light hearted. The drawing is considerably weaker but by the end it's up to High Society standards.

Too bad about Arrow, I really wanted to see that and if my Mom wasn't visiting I would have watched it last night. Sounds like I didn't miss much.

I have been reading that Thor book on comixology that you mentioned by Walter Simonson... fuck are they ever good. Somehow I missed this guy all together. Don't know how that happened.

Matt: Without having seen the show, you won't know to ask a player who has just broken his pact with you to "please remove cock from arse."

YES, the Simonson Thor is just amazing...they're just so freaking good, I would rank that run as one of the very best and most consistent superhero monthlies of all time...maybe even the best ever. It's written so well, and his attention to the larger story and telling it through smaller vignettes is brilliantly handled. I don't think it's even dated all that much, it still feels very current, particularly if you're reading the Comixology ones- they're slightly recolored, which gives the artwork more dimension and brings out the best in Simonson's pencils. His style is SO clean and he has such a strong grasp of when to break panel and do something graphic.

Matt, of course I didn't link to your very well done review, because you traitoriously published it for coin at a site not called Fortress AT or No High Scores. What a sell out.

I've only played the "standard" Spartacus, which starts you at 4 influence. You can really adjust the length by playing to lesser influence numbers or starting lower. I've only played with the standard setup. I'd imagine you could probably take an hour off pretty easily. The problem is that procedurally it's repetitive and the only sense of development is in bringing in new slaves, gladiators, and assets. Part of this is because there's not a sense of on-board game state development- it really is a take that game with a minor auction and then the fight. I also kind of think the fight should have been designed to be a little shorter- enough die rolls or whatever to give a narrative arc and provide drama, but not so much where you're rolling dice ten times to get a resolution.

When we were demoing Spartacus at Gen Con we started the games at like 7 or 8 influence and they all played pretty quickly. If I remember correctly we played three or four games in the four hour slot we had. My only problem with playing at that level is that there are fewer cards that you have to team up with someone else to get enough influence to play. And I actually wanted to play some longer games to get more of a sense of building up your House and assets. We had quite a few players that had never seen the show and knowledge of the show just adds to the overall flavor rather than being required for play. I was talking to Joe Krone from Battlefront Miniatures after the demos and it sounds like they put in a lot of time doing playtesting during development and I think it shows in the game play.

Yeah, that's the problem with starting with higher influence...if you take away that impetus to collude with other players, you miss out on a major GREAT function of the game. Maybe if you doubled all of the influence costs on the cards and started with 7/8?

Agreed on show knowledge...there is absolutey non required, and you can probably sort out for yourself that the Spartacus and Crixus gladiator cards are the best.

Agreed too on the playtesting. This is the kind of game that playtesting can make or break. I haven't run into anything screwed up, broken, or badly designed. It feels quite tuned.

Melee was the prehistoric version of GURPS. There was a couple of stops in between, called Man-to-Man and Orcslayer. I still have Man-to-Man, and that comes with a sheet of cardboard heroes and a hex map of an arena pit, so it's specifically set up for gladiatorial combats.

I missed out on the Simonson Thor run back in the day, because I felt that Walt was drawing an excessively skinny Thor compared to previous versions, especially Kirby, Buscema and Pollard. But I have heard consistently good things about the quality of the writing, and I loved Simonson's old Manhunter run for DC, so I will look into it one of these days.

Yeah, Melee is definitely worth looking at...I'm not sure it's something folks would want to play regularly anymore, but that old Fantasy Trip stuff is interesting. Wizard added magic, and there were some other add-ons. But yeah, it was mostly just a gladiator game.

Shell, dude, seriously man...put down the hammer and crown moulding for a minute and just buy the Thor Omnibus that has all of the Simonson run. You will not regret it. The writing is so good, the art outstanding...skinny Thor and all.

Way back in the mists of time (late 70's) there was another gladiatorial combat game.

As I remember, it was a sort of double blind game where you plotted 'lower left sweep with sword' or 'stab to the left with trident' etc. Both plots are revealed and damage worked out. God knows, what it was called but I remember playing in or around 1978. Anyone any idea what that was?

As I recall, it was a ziplock game.

On the D6Generation podcast, I heard that Spartacus is one of those games where the second play for everyone at the table reduced the time by half or more. Unfortunately, if everyone is annoyed with first game, the second is that much harder to table.

Quote from RockPaperShotgun comments:
There’s a reason they used American actors. I spoke to Viktor about it at that Guardian event the other day. he told me that they knew the publishers would be more comfortable shifting the game in the States if it had American voices. Arkane were happy to oblige; it doesn’t effect their vision at all- it’s a fictional city after all.

It kind of makes sense if you think how British films are often subtitled in the US.

I love AH's old Gladiator game. It's a classic wargame-style design from the late 70s, meaning that it's detailed and crunchy; but pre-plotting both your movement and your allocation of attack and defence points to the 5 hit locations makes for real tension, a lot of entertaining hi-jinks and just plain brutality. If you can enjoy pre-plotting movement with a pencil and paper alongside table-heavy combat resolution then Gladiator is a game you'll enjoy; otherwise, probably not so much. Sad to say, I suspect that many gamers are in the latter category: I certainly don't get my copy to the table much at all, but it's still a keeper.

I'm definitely getting Spartacus. It sounds like my kind of game. Happy Birthday!

I walked right into the local comic/game shop last night to pick up King of Tokyo and Spartacus. It's a really big place, probably the best stocked store in the Midwest outside of Chicago. They were out of stock of KoT and hadn't received Spartacus yet. And they didn't have the Thor omnibus either. And my 10% discount card had expired last summer.

Despite not having been in the place since Free Comic Book Day last whenever, one of the clerks still knew me by name and joked around about my long absence. I renewed my discount card and picked up the two Marvel Visionaries trades collecting the various Perez issues of Fantastic Four so I wouldn't feel like the entire 6-block round trip was a waste.

Btw, that Orcslayer thing that I mentioned up-page is a fantastic buy, though long out of print. It's a fantasy mini-campaign consisting of a half-dozen good fight scenes strung together with an okay story, perfectly usable with Man-to-Man, or with minimal effort, either Melee or GURPS. Includes a couple of decent hex maps and a sheet of cardboard heroes, IIRC.

Yes, I had Melee and Wizard many years ago, before ex wives burned the lot. They were fun especially Wizard as I recall.

Memories are returning and now I think the gladiatorial game I mentioned earlier, was a small book about the size of En Garde. Any ideas?

I'm confused by all this talk about Simonson's Thor being skinny.

Steve prefers a fat Thor, apparently.

It's a relative comparison. Kirby always draws bulky figures, so of course his Thor tended to look massive. Buscema drew Conan for a long run, so it's not surprising that his Thor was also very muscular. And Pollard was obviously influenced by Kirby, so his Thor was very solidly built. The Simonson Thor had big arms and thick thighs, but his facial features were almost delicate and his waistline was almost skinny. Many of the other characters tended to be skinny, leaving an overall impression of a less physically impressive group of gods, with Thor and Beta Ray Bill looking more massive, but only relatively so compared to thinner characters. And this armor from later in the Simonson run made Thor's legs and arms look thinner:

No, I don't want a fat Thor, or even a chunky Thor like Copiel likes to draw:

But look how scrawny this Simonson Thor seems. Dude needs to eat a cookie:

His thighs still look thicker than my torso.

As an aside, that page is awesome. He took sound effects to a new level (as did Dave Sim).

I do not like Copiel's Thor. He looks more like a Mongol, and his boot toppers are way too small.

Yeah, Simonson's approach to sound effects is really awesome...his visual sense is so damn good, action panel with lots of motion and then you've got this really solid, stern font on a flat axis for the sound.

DOOOOOOOM!

Yeah, I remember reading an early Simonson Thor back in the 80s and the sheer dynamism of his action scenes blew me away- I remember that it was as if the power-armoured goons Thor was fighting were actually moving. I pored over the thing for ages. And yes, his sound effects are good, but the king of sound effects is Ken Bruzenak in Howard Chaykin's American Flagg: unique in its day and unsurpassed since, Bruzenak's sound effects were an integral part of the visual design of this magnificent work.

As far as sound effects go, American Flagg always felt like an episode of Adam West's Batman TV series.

And, yea, spend the $80 on the Simonson Thor Omnibus volume. It's one of the best collections you could drop the money on. Thor was always a B-lister (more like a C+) to me...save for WS's extended run. He just seemed to *get* the character just right for me...

As for Cerberus...Sim is insane but it's one of my favorite books of all time. Of course, I was a fucking moron who sold off the Phone Books eons ago. Something I've come to regret greatly in recent years.

Shame on you Dogmatix, shame on you! :P