There Will Be Games Act II: Money Is Not Our God Hot

Should have stuck to trains.

This is a fascinating series Michael. I am looking forward to the next one! I know it may be jumping ahead some, but did any of the friendships survive at all?

This is my question too! I have heard that forming a business with a spouse or friends can often lead to "nuclear" results.

It sounds to me like a case of the "wise" businessman with the money showing the enthusiastic kid (Michael) how to do it right but failing because he had no real knowledge in the specific industry.

I have to wonder if Michael ran the show himself and was given complete control with the other guys staying out of it if it would have turned out different.

Good grief, you guys are impatient! Wait 'til the end!

did any of the friendships survive at all?

After a fashion...Dollar Bill and I had a falling out over an entirely different issue later on. But it was sort of business oriented as well. Seriously folks, don't get in the business bed with people you'd like to continue on speaking terms with in 10 years.

It sounds to me like a case of the "wise" businessman with the money showing the enthusiastic kid (Michael) how to do it right but failing because he had no real knowledge in the specific industry.

More like the "wise businessman" and the "enthusiastic kid" showing the reckless investor who has no real knowledge how to do it right, actually!

I have to wonder if Michael ran the show himself and was given complete control with the other guys staying out of it if it would have turned out different.

This is _exactly_ what happens later on. Unfortunately, there was something that pretty much foreclosed on that. But just wait for it, for pete's sake!

Should have stuck to trains.

You know, people still ask me all the time about starting a hobby business, investing a little money into it...I had people offering to invest in AGF. My advice to any one so inclined? Take all that money you're looking at investing in a game store and take it to Las Vegas. Play slot machines with the maximum bets every time until you're up, and you'll have made a better profit than you likely ever will running a game store in today's environment. I'm serious.

My prediction: act three will be subtitled "Love Like Blood."

I'll go with: "No Country For Stupid Assholes."

I was thinking about calling it "Jaz and Geordie go to Iceland"...

And the obscure music jokes roll on...

Would you have done better had you been more of a full service hobby store? Or perhaps had comics thrown into the mix?

Comics, yes. What a money-maker. I'm not familiar with the end of his tale, but that is one item I thought his pre-saged HORRIBLE HORRIBLE decision might be.

Here's a video of what happens when folks try to bolster lackluster sales by adding comics to their wares: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAhSSy4_7mc&feature=related

I don't think comics would have helped, to be honest...to carry two major product lines like that with any depth is really hard for a new store to do. These stores that have been around 10-15 years can do it because they've reinvested their capital in it for so long that it's feasible. But starting out it would be really, really expensive to have a full line of comics as well as a full line of board games.

Product diversity is tough for a small store...I'll tell you though...the best profit margin thing we carried was food and drink. And that's _without_ movie theater-style gouging, which I refused to do.

But then there's those stuffed animals The Barrister insisted on stocking...

Didn't Ward Batty try comics with his game store?

Ward did comics. Which kind of made sense as Ward does Comic Shop News, and was involved with Dr. No's in some way for years. Ward was pretty certain that he could sustain the store on comic sales alone.

And...the comics didn't do so well. Problem is, most of the comics sales come from pulls (subscriptions) from the hardcore comics fans. And there are two other comic stores within 5 miles, that already had their subscriptions. What WAS sustaining his store for awhile was Yugi-O.

Comics downtown might have worked, as you have a decent sized transient population filled with geeks. Video games might have done well as well....But *I'm* getting ahead of the narrative.

Yes, he did...but Ward is a long-time comics man, he's had success as a partner in another store doing a comics/games mix. He's actually one of the people behind Comic Shop news, so he's definitely a veteran. His other place, Dr. No's, stocks comics and games and they've been there since...well, I think I bought some of those original TMNT issues there back in the mid-1980s.

Most folks around here attribute his store's closure to its location, which I think is bunk because it was a pretty good location and a very nicely appointed store that I patronized a lot before we opened.

Atlanta's so tough since we have I-285 ringing the city so you've got "out of perimeter" folks, and "in the perimeter" folks. A lot OTP folks are scared to death of going inside 285 for fear of seeing a black person or traffic, and a lot of ITP folks are scared to death of going outside 285 for fear of seeing suburban rednecks and traffic. It makes for a goofy situation where OTP assume that anything within 285 is impossible to get to, but if you're outside the perimeter you're either on the wrong side, making it tough for folks from the other side of the city to get to you without dealing with traffic or you're in suburban hell where no one will ever find you. Ward's place was right on the edge of the perimeter on the northside, which was just right as far as I'm concerned.

We were right in the heart of Atlanta, and that was even better in the long run.

That sounds alot like this area (Detroit). Lots of folks outside of Detroit only go to Detroit for sporting events or the casinos but don't tend to linger once that is done. Although we don't have a nice dividing line like that (8-Mile I suppose).

I just asked about comics because it seems that's what alot of stores around here do. Although, I suppose it's better to do one thing and be good at it rather than try to do many things and suck at them all.

Barnes, did you sell the game "Magdar" in your store?

Yes. It sat on the shelf for like a year and I put it on the clearance table.

Interesting

Mike/mikoyan--

That's like a lot of older cities, my own (Cincinnati) included. the I-275 loop and outward (toward Dayton, Lexington, Columbus and Louisville) is where it's at. Cincinnati also has the peculiar issue of neighborhoods, where each neighborhood is strictly defined and stereotyped, and some adjoining neighborhoods simply don't interact with other ones.

All that combines to make starting a small business a real bitch to figure out where to be located.

Good story, Mike. I'm curious to see how it ends, because I'm wondering if one of the FLGS' I go to (the new one) is going to be following in your footsteps real shortly.

--Mike L.

The loop was also a significant factor in Indy, except that the north end of the area inside the I-465 loop is still considered a nice area. So the two really successful Indy game shops, The Game Preserve and The Boardroom, were both located there.

Here in the Twin Cities, it's all a jumble because of the lakes. There is a really big loop (I-494/694), but anything near a lake inside that loop is still pretty fancy real estate, and there are a lot of lakes around here. And then I live in a odd upscale neighborhood that isn't close to any bodies of water, but is between the Minneapolis and Saint Paul campuses of the U. The one extremely successful local game and comic shop is located less than two miles away.

I don't know how people back in the day were satisfied reading a chapter at a time of Dostoevsky or Charles Dickens...I'm extremely grateful you're going full tilt and posting biweekly now!

This is a fantastic story (parable?) and I am most excited about it continuing! I avoided this kind of thing when S.King did it..but now I am a fan!

The timing is really quite perfect. As a Stand-Up comic my wife is often trying to convince me that perhaps there is another income stream I might like to get involved in...and with my passion for gameas she keeps saying that maybe a games store is the answer! Now I just link her to this tale and get back to the REAL money of comedy! ;)

Between this and DW Tripps insight on various threads...it seems a crazy hope for sure.

Glad to know it will be faster than monthly!

That feeling of "déja vu"... Started a business myself with 2 friends. Quite successfull. Suddenly, orders began to slow down. We finally discovered that my own version of the Barrister had secretely created a company with a very similar name, and that he was invoicing the clients using that structure... He wasn't even sorry: "Well, I can't help it, there was a lot of money to earn..."

Player Aid for this game:
1. Never start a business with friends
2. Never trust a lawyer
3. Never start a business with friends

Something else about money. Noticed today that the change rate is now 1,52 $ for an euro (I mean, the currency...). This means a lot more preorders in my basket ! Even shipment from the USA becomes more attractive than when ordering in Europe. Within a few years, I may end up buying the whole GMT company

Great stuff, happy to hear you've upped the frequency, Michael -- I've been checking back every day to read the next installment. The tragedy has been foreshadowed so thoroughly that I feel like we're picking through a mangled car wreck at the elbow of a forensic expert, and I wince at every painful detail. Ultimately, as a parable about the fate of our hobby, it's pretty fucking depressing. Sigh.

The ending to this story? It's kind of like The Wild Bunch, only more violent.

Barnes is right about 285. That thing is a demon ring of traffic.

Despite the wealth of games available today and the strength of a handful of publishers, the game business as a whole is in serious trouble I think, for a lot of reasons...but that increasing Euro and weakening dollar is bad, bad news. When companies like Days of Wonder and Rio Grande are upping MSRPs by five and ten dollars, nothing good will come out of it. It doesn't help that the industry is swamped with ne'er-do-wells who think running a game store is a permanent vacation. We'll get to some of that later.

Milo- I've got a fourth thing to add but it'd be a huge spoiler.

The ending is kind of like THE WILD BUNCH but with 100% less grinning Ernest Borgnine.

The economy is cyclical though. Things will turn around. Personally, I think the slew of Euro clones will do more bad for the hobby than rising prices. If it's a good game, people will pay it.

"Age Of Greed" has to be the title of the next chapter.

Well, for right now, it's called "The Wait" because next week is a PANDEMIC review. "Age of Greed" is later on, actually, maybe followed by "Farewell to the Village".

Sure, the economy is cyclic...but I'm telling you, the industry as a whole is really on the ropes despite isolated successes. It's just not ever figured out how to stay relevant and viable in the face of changing attitudes toward leisure time, gaming, and the effect of the internet in all of this. The CCG boom was kind of its last hurrah, but now that's dead and when you're a retailer, you see all this marketing that tries to convince you that whatever collectible product is being sold to you is the "next big thing" that will somehow recapture the wildfire success of MAGIC. Even what, 10-15 years after that game's heyday! There's always this drive to get retailers to spend money on hyped product that almost always winds up completely flopping with a short shelflife and the illusion of strong manufacturer support. RPGs, which were a significant product in the 80s and 90s are almost completely useless at this point because the kids that used to get into D&D now get into WoW instead. RPG publishers do better selling downloadable PDFs then printing hardcopy books. Board games, ironically, have been the only real growth sector in the business over the past couple of years.

Yet, I still think that's a dead end. A couple of years ago, 2002-2004 or so, it seemed like there was a lot of speculation that there was a booming "family games" market spearheaded by Eurogames and companies like RGG and DoW. But that never really broke out like everyone thought it would. Sure, TICKET TO RIDE showed up at Toys R Us but I think that lasted what, a month? All that realy happened was that SETTLERS, TICKET TO RIDE, CARCASSONNE, and BLOKUS started selling really well. The "casual gamer" or "family game" market doesn't support continued purchases of $50 games. It supports buying one or two titles because that's all most people- meaning the mainstream dilletante- wants.

For the more serious gamer, the ones who really spend money, they don't spend it at an FLGS. They're internet savvy and realize they can get the same thing for $15-$20 less online. It doesn't help that superconsumerism has infected the hobby and people feel like they have to spend $200 to save $10 on shipping for their bulk orders. Online sales are really killing the FLGS, it's been said many times before but it's absolutely true. I ran all my board games at 30% off all the time to combat them and although I did a lot of volume, it just isn't a sensible or profitable business model for a brick and mortar store to make $3-$5 off the sale of a $27 wholesale item. It used to be that a $27 wholesale item you'd sell for $50 MSRP and profit $23. Can't do that now! And you know, I still had people come in and bitch that my prices were too high and that they could stuff cheaper from Boulder.

So coupled with a huge glut of mediocre product cranked out with an alarming degree of regularity- not just in board games but also in stuff like over-marketed and overhyped CCGs that are pitched like short-sell stocks to retailers- this retail environment combined with the weakened dollar is just more bad news. If it weren't for companies like Fantasy Flight, Days of Wonder, RGG, and other publishers that have established brands and continual bestsellers, it'd be a disaster.

Here's a terrible fact for you- in 2005, _over half of the FLGS in the US went out of business_. That's from a COMICS AND GAMES RETAILER report from early 2006, I don't remember which issue.

Michael, as we talked in other threads, I think that in order for a FLGS to survive it has to branch out from its traditional mold. The long running one around Cincinnati (been around since the 70's, I think) is half boardgames/RPGs, half plastic models. If an FLGS branches out into videogames, then it has a chance to stay relevant by broadening its product line.

One potential drawback to a meshing of product lines is that there's a temptation to go overload on Geek culture. If that happens, it's sayonnara to a lot of potential mainstream customers. One thing that a friend who works at a game store has told me is that it's vitally important to not scare off the "normal" people, and he used me as an example. "But I'm a Geek, you know," I protested. "Yeah, but you look normal and respectable. Having a guy like you with your kids in tow means that to a casual passer-by that it's okay to actually check the store out."

--Mike L.

You're right on the money, Matt. It is important to make a store appear normal, acceptable, and "cool". It did make a big difference for my store that we had a lot of fairly "with it" college kids as opposed to a bunch of smelly middle-aged losers. My store had a youthful vibe, it didn't feel like one of those places where 35-year old Burger King employees go to play MAGIC with 12 year olds.

Oh man, I can't wait to do "The Losers" article...

Video games...do you know that's practically impossible for an independent store? I looked into it...the volumes you have to buy to get new video games in your store are astronomical, and they do that specifically to keep mom and pop stores out of the racket. That's why there aren't independent video games stores and you have to go to corporate chains to buy them. Used VGs are such an iffy proposition that I never bothered to start it...there's all these places that wholesale used video games but how much of that stuff outlives its shelf life and you wind up selling them for $5? That's a big problem, video games do have a "sell by" date and that's why stores that do used stuff have so much crap that sits there forever. At the time AGF was open though, it was a good opportunity because there really wasn't anywhere in the city to buy video games...but the capital outlay and startup costs to do the used thing were just too much.

No, we decided to sell something else and it was definitely a case of "geek overload"...more on that later.

Eeep.

That's the second time in less than a year that someone has called me "Matt". ::checks sig:: Yep, the Mike is there.

I have a younger brother named Matt, who is just about my polar opposite on most things (including religion and things in Geekdom - like RPGs). That would be a definite surprise to see him EVER posting in here, much less any other gaming site.

--Mike L.

Ooo, the story is heating up. I'll eagerly await the next issue.

I know what you mean about prices...some people will complain about any price, and will be incredulous that they can't get something for nothing. This happens alot with used books (I run a used book store)...I sell used books, 1/2 cover, cheaper than you can get it on Amazon or Walmart...still people complain about price. I have a shelf outside that sells books for 25 cents, and I always get some old lady who will come inside, pick up a pile of books, and be amazed when she gets to the counter that all these books inside aren't also 25 cents. How people think it is even possible for someone to obtain thousands of books, organize and alphabetize them, and keep a store open all day for you to come get them, for 25 cents each...it always amazes me. Many people just have a sense of entitlement that they can't get over.

But theres a lot of good people out there too.

I personally think all retail is doomed, and its only a matter of time before everyone works in a warehouse, for a shipping company, or in a restaurant.

There's always going to be jobs. I hear this guy is hiring...

Mo-nay! That's MO-NAY!

MO- MO- MO- sayitwithmenow MO----NAY!

The thing that will keep retail in business is the fact that not everyone has a computer and internet access. But those folks generally keep places like Wal-Mart in business and not the mom and pop type stores. I mostly buy my game locally because I like to have them in my hand (except for wargames since noone stocks them). I occasionally buy stuff from Amazon but mostly Borders (that's a local company for me since the headquarters is in the town next door). Do I pay more for it? Yes. But I think that when you factor in shipping and all that, it becomes a wash.

It's tough because I really like game stores. There are little to none in my area, but when I travel on business I make it a point to plan out visits to any game stores that might be in the area. And I try to make it a point to pick up something, anything while I'm there.

To me, the FLGS provides one thing that I do value...and considering what a bunch of bits whores we AT lot typically are, it might be of value to you, too...and that's the tactile interaction with the product before you purchase. It's weird too because it's getting to the point where once upon a time, I knew exactly how a game looked in the package, especially the size. Now I see games so much on the internet without any real context that oftentimes the packages look alien once you finally see them. Like Samurai...man, that game box is like twice the size I expected.

The other thing that a FLGS provides is that power of spontaneous suggestion. You're not thinking about a game, but there it sits on the shelf. It catches your notice, you pick it up...looks interesting...and it worms its way into your brain. If you'd just casually seen it on the internet, you would've clicked by without a thought, or odds are you wouldn't have noticed it in crowded cyberspace anyway. But in the here and now, you've got the game, and it's got you. That's a pre-purchase experience that only a FLGS can provide.

I have two different articles planned, one about the hideous history of FLGS in my area, and another talking about some of the scary links between the boardgame industry of today and the video game industry circa 1983. So I'll shut up now and save some of that stuff to talk about later. Both are subjects of great interest to me.

Great article, Mike, I think I know where this is all going based on some stuff I've heard you talk about, but it's fun to go along for the ride (and yet still feel that inevitable dread as to what's to come as the story spirals downward.)

Oh, we're still goin' up before we go down my friend...we've got a long way to go.

Yep, my thoughts exactly. I just did a 3 day stint downtown in the D doing some training with the Compududes @ Compuware HQ. Swanky place. Nifty to have a Hard Rock Cafe in your lobby... anyhoo...

My FLGS http://www.fanfare-se.com/ is also my FLCS - they also do sports cards and a bit of memorabilia. They don't do, models, trains or more "hobby" store type stuff (other than gaming miniatures). They even had a selection of used CDs/DVDs/Video games. They have seemingly found some ideal mix of Comics/Toys/Sports/Games/Other that keeps them in business, I guess.

I think you should turn this story into a musical Michael, I see Tony written all over it Interesting characters, suspense, intrigue, maybe even betrayal??? I can just hear the the*mad*gamer* a singing now! ;)

Also, and this is a serious question, how do you think your experiences with the store framed your opinions on gaming culture? It seems like I see wisps and hints of 'is that where that opinion comes from?' in some of these stories. Not sure if that is clear - let me try again - I seem to see in some of these stories where the genesis of some of your opinions on gaming culture may come from and I wonder if that has to do with running the store per se - do you maybe have a more "macro" view of gaming culture than someone who has never run a store and therefore likely has fewer stories such as those you have described?

el van

Nah, more like a Coen brothers' film. More like The Big Lebowski than Fargo or No Country for Old Men.

--Mike L.

There's not nearly as many guns in The Big Lebowski as there are in this here yarn.

I grew up in the restaurant business ( WHAT?! a greek boy in the restaurant business?!). We had eight stores at one point-- can you believe hat we lost them all but one due embezzlement from familly members?

No joke, small business is a bitch.

Hey Mike, what kind of strain did this put on your marriage? If there is one reason that I'll never get into the restaurant biz again, it's the fact that it's not condusive to a happy life at home due to the crazy hours. It has to be a factor, because from what I noticed the kinda guy that will open a FLGS is, generally, the married or long-term commitment type looking to meld the practical to the pleasant. Seeing as how owning an FLGS is synonymous with living there in today's market I can easily see most people deciding that riding a desk would be the safer bet.

Well, my wife works more hours than I ever _could_, so it wasn't really a strain...at the time, she was working on a Food Network show (which she's still doing) and a part-time job...and doing graphic design work on the side. So my 14 hour days were usually times when she was off working at the same time. The studio she was working at was right by the store, actually, so she was in pretty much every day at some point.

What _was_ a strain was not making enough money. That was hard, working all that for about $28k a year...if the store were still open and was on the track it was then (and with The Barrister out of the picture), I'd probably be making double that. Maybe.

quote=Michael Barnes]Well, my wife works more hours than I ever _could_, so it wasn't really a strain...at the time, she was working on a Food Network show (which she's still doing) and a part-time job...and doing graphic design work on the side. So my 14 hour days were usually times when she was off working at the same time. The studio she was working at was right by the store, actually, so she was in pretty much every day at some point.[/quote]

Heh, found you a sugar mommy hunh? All joking aside, I'm sure it helped big time that yopu guys got to at least see each other on a regular basis.

Preaching to the choir. There where times in the winter, when it was dead slow, that once I'd payed the bills, and payroll and be left with a few bucks to take home. After an 80 hour week.

Yay. Boy do I miss that.

This was really what made me (and company) patrons of AGF three days a week (Tues. Hecatomb, Wed. Boardgames, Sat. Warhammer). I went into *shudder* Hobbytown for Christmas shopping this year, and it was the stereotypical crowd people always complain of seeing in game stores - the middle-aged angrily glaring at the under-15. As someone happily in-between those two rather unappealing age-groups, I just really wouldn't want to hang out there for two hours or more.

I'm not sure if everyone is this way, but there are some parts in movies that I dislike, like a favoured character dieing or some calamity occuring, I dislike the outcome so much that every time I see the movie I wish it would happen some other way, even though I know it's going to happen the way it did every other time I watched the movie. That's kind of how these articles make me feel. Still funny enough to keep reading, but they make me miss the store.

I would still consider Eagle Games the Alpha and the Omega of boardgaming were it not for the AGF. Ironically enough, it was the Barrister who convinced myself and co. to come check out boardgame night. I met Barnes over a rousing (that's sarcasm, btw) game of Shadows Over Camelot at our first board-game night. My family and I actually stumbled in because we thought it was a video-game store, and we ended up coming back for the Warhammer.