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The Cult of the Old The Cult of the Old Hot

grumpyI’ll wager that every long-term gamer has flashes of boredom with their hobby. Brief sargassos in the sea of gaming where your attention is diverted by some great new computer title, or a film or book. Perhaps a period of intense activity in your personal or working life has taken you away from games, or even just a self evaluation that made you yearn for something more. At the time it feels like you’ve gone off games for good. But a week, a month, even a year later, you’re back in your favourite shop, tracking down all the cool releases you’ve missed. I’ve been there. We all have.

But for the past six months I’ve been somewhere that’s similar, but not quite the same. I’m confident that it isn’t just passing ennui this time. Not only has it lasted much longer than normal, it’s qualitatively different. What’s changed is that I’m listless and disinterested only about new and upcoming releases. I still have an enormous yearning to play games, a gaping chasm that no amount of free time could hope to fill. I want to spend my time playing the games I already have instead.

There’s lots of obvious reasons for this. The economy of the globe is being flushed down the pan, and my disposable income is plummeting while the price of board games is going sky high. A package recently arrived for me containing two games that cost me more than a box with plastic behemoths Twilight Imperium 3 and War of the Ring plus their respective expansions did not four years ago. As a psychological defence mechanism if nothing else, it seems quite natural that I should shy away from looking at and desiring new releases. And yet when I do look at upcoming material, more often than not I’ll shake my head and move on, where once I’d quickly be whipped into a frenzy of excitement, whether I could afford new games or not.

It’s tempting to pin the blame for my enthusiasm finally being swept away on the endless washing of the cult of the new tide. But that’s been eating at me for years with little or no effect. It doesn’t take much practice to pick the wheat from the chaff once you’ve played a few different titles and got your taste down properly.

No, I think what’s finally got to me is  the passing of time. The accumulation of age and experience. And I mean age specifically: as a young man there was a time when I found it hard to have the patience required to read a preview article and then have to wait for a product to show. The distance between wanting something that was actually available and not buying it was pretty much insurmountable. That’s just impulse control, and like most people I’ve got better at it as I’ve got older. And a good job, too.

But the experience is the more important aspect. I’ve now played something in the region of three hundred different board games in my life. Three hundred. There are many people who’ve played many more of course, but I still think that makes me fairly well qualified to say that I’ve seen most of the central mechanics, scenarios, themes, problems and solutions that the hobby has to offer, mostly several times over. And now, when I see a new game, I have a wealth of perspective to set it against and ask myself: what does this really give me that a game I already own does not?

I can recall arguing a couple of years ago that there was plenty of life left in the hobby because the ability to slice and dice mechanics and create hybrid games was a potentially limitless source of new and exciting combinations. And I was largely right: almost all the most interesting releases of the last two years have been hybrids, games with sometimes complex mechanics and old fashioned themes, but with the tightness, balance and strategy depth of German-style games. But even this road seems to be starting to run out of steam. From Wallenstein through to Eclipse, how many more times can designers demonstrate their skill at leaping the difficult hurdles that dudes-on-a-map games place in front of balance and tactics before we’ve seen it all?

Ultimately, there is a barrier in board gaming that doesn’t really exist for role-playing and computer games. A physical barrier of wood, plastic and cardboard that games which take place largely in the imagination or inside microprocessors can simply mutate and glide over whenever propelled by designers of sufficient skill. There is only so much you can do with cards, or a board, before things start looking a bit samey. Social interaction, trading, negotiating, diplomacy with disparate groups of people helps a lot, but still, the need to shove a board between the players to do some administration keeps the whole thing tethered firmly to the earth. Don’t get me wrong: I’d rather play a board game than an RPG or a video game any day. But that barrier to creativity and differentiation has to be acknowledged. Even adding in digital components, audio, video can only go so far. There’s an end to the road when it comes to creating genuinely innovative stuff.

I can’t help but wonder if this isn’t partly behind the rash of re-releases that we’re seeing, where anything even passingly interesting from days gone by has its rights sniffed out, and reprint lined up for a hungry modern audience. If designers are butting up against the limits of creativity imposed by the medium, and customers are starting to save their dwindling leisure spending for big releases rather than the copycat churn of the cult of the new, what better solution than to resurrect some long lost title, and try and make it work a bit better than it did before?

I’m sure this sounds terribly gloomy so far. It isn’t supposed to: after all, I’m quite happy re-playing the games I already have. Rather, what this made me think of ultimately is what new blood coming into the hobby is going to make of it all. It’s taken me a long time to reach this point: nearly thirty years with toes dipped in and out of various parts of the hobby, three hundred different games played and probably two hundred owned at some point or another, half of which I’ve sold, traded, loaned or lost. The points on my gaming compass were set by the Games Workshop and Avalon Hill classics of the late eighties. A couple more were added by the European revolution a decade later. But I’m getting on now, almost hitting forty, and so it’s no great surprise that I don’t see some of the newer games hitting the market as seismic shifts in direction: I’m just starting to get a little too set in my ways.

But for new people, it’s different. The board gaming hobby might have physical limitations to creativity, but design is also an iterative process. I might not see all that many of today’s new dudes-on-a-map games are being sufficiently different from their predecessors to be worth my time, but by and large, most of them manage to be ever so slightly better than the older games. Tighter, deeper, more interesting. Same goes for pretty much every genre you can imagine. The newer guys coming into the hobby without the experience, without the jadedness that comes from having seen it all before are benefitting: they’re getting to play superior product untainted by what has gone before. The hobby comes full circle, and renews itself, and all is right with the world.

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Comments (39)
  • avatarqwertymartin

    Nice post Matt. This is pretty much exactly where I am right now, though I've only been in the hobby for 5 years. I have played 400 different games in that time though, so maybe it's something to do with the number of rulesets you can learn before they all start sounding a bit samey.

  • avatarJeff White

    Great article, Matt. I'd wager that rpgs might actually be in a similar, or maybe even worse, situation. I love a good rpg, but we're essentially being sold the same model over and over again. How many times can companies sell us rules for imaginary combat? I know a publisher would like to stay afloat, but like I read on another site it's almost like they have to re-invent the wheel every 5-10 years with each new rpg edition (specifically thinking D&D here as the market leader).

    Is that sustainable?

    Also, each new D&D edition seems to fragment the user base more and more. Many perfectly fine with the core/sourcebooks of their favorite edition. An unlimited number of tales can be spun from any of them.

    Regarding boardgames, yeah I don't really get excited about new games anymore either and don't even really follow the new releases. Part of it is having fallen back into role-playing after a very long hiatus, but also I think I'm either becoming nostalgic or a true grumpy old man. I just don't feel like the new games have the charm of the old. I found myself really enjoying my read of the Dragon Pass rulebook. Not only the arcane symbols but the flavor and character of the units put forth in the fluff. I enjoy the rudimentary Trampier art of AH's Titan, all the charts and randomness of a GW classic like Block Mania or DQ. Yes, Small World, Nexus Ops and the like are leaner and faster, but really they have no personality. I do enjoy a game of SW and NO now and then, but ultimately they feel like over-polished, disposable pop songs whereas an older title feels more like the Misfit's Static Age: raw, but with a lot of heart.

  • avatarDukeofChutney

    interesting view. Im not quite there with board games yet. But i am there with computer games. I play computer games slightly more than board games, i used to play them alot more. I can count very few games that i've felt were particularly innovative or great in the past 5 years or so. The RTS and FPS genres especially have not gone many new places, RPG too. Most of the underlying ideas in all these games have altered very little since the early 1990s. Yeah the graphics are better, but that alone isn't enough. THe narratives, and game play is just too samy. I have no idea how many computer games i've played, probably hundreds.

  • avatarSagrilarus

    I'm reading the rule book for Source of the Nile, an old game that is very well regarded. I'll be honest. Some of the concepts look intriguing but the game's age is showing. There's functionality present that modern gamers (likely including all I play with and maybe me as well) won't be willing to sit for. At 2-4 hours playtime this one isn't due to be reprinted anytime soon.

    I like old games. They feel like lost treasure to me and I'm much more patient than most people when it comes to playing them. But things have indeed gotten better. Very few old titles still have the chops to compete in the modern market.

    S.

  • avatarsgosaric

    I'd say it all depends where you get your excitement and what do you play for.

    After half a year playing with eurogamers I'm getting burned out, and I do try to avoid most of the pure euros being played, the group is big enough for that. My take is that many middle to heavier euros are basically puzzles - it's a race in efficiency and knowing the system. As each puzzle can only be played a number of times before it gets samey, there's a brand new one around the corner. And it's easier to make a new puzzle (just turn some numbers and parameters around) then to come up with new way of people interacting. Cult of the new thus suits groups who play for playing and not for socialising - in puzzles the interaction is limited and emotional upset low. It's a social model reflected in the gaming genre, the problem is that in such a case fluctuation of any game becomes fast and tolerance and "getting it" in more than one or mex. two plays gets low.

    Then again, seems to me that games which get their replayability from player interaction are made for a different audience - one of small circles or friends. Here it's about quality time and interaction and systems better suited to this are those that allow for greater freedom. Sure it's harder to make innovations in this field and some possible paths are time consuming (open negotiation, secret orders). Then again, why would it bother anyone if there's lack of innovation in the field of games one can play a huge amount of times and they don't get old as they really on people playing them. I've recently stumbled across a bunch of forends (Warhammer and RPG palyers) who own 3-4 boardgames as a group, but as they've played BSG 100+ times, they never even opened the other boxes.

    It's a quite weird situation you're describing - on one hand not many interesting new stuff is getting out, on the other hand, we can't even play the stuff that is out or even the one in our gaming closet. Maybe the question here is not aimed at the "scene" and "the state of gaming", but our state as gamers. Sure a lot of this is the state of consumerism - when you had one pair of jeans, you wore those even it they didn't fit perfectly, now with the choice of 30 models of different colours, materials, cuts which all fit you much better than the old ones, you always get the nagging feeling that you maybe didn't buy the best one. And the games seem to be on the same cycle of small improvements - a better material components, a bit more interesting theme, some new euro mechanic because this one is hot this year, and here we go. More choice means more pressure on you making the best choice.

    Writing about this made me wonder about how I game. A time for some mid year resolutions it seems... I will play the good games I have more, instead of trying the mediocre games I can borrow, I will try to get the kind of gaming group together that'll play the games I'm interested in and so on.

  • avatarJeff White

    great post, sgosaric!

    Quote:
    I've recently stumbled across a bunch of forends (Warhammer and RPG palyers) who own 3-4 boardgames as a group, but as they've played BSG 100+ times, they never even opened the other boxes.

    These guys are living the dream. :)

  • avatarMattDP  - re:
    Jeff White wrote:
    great post, sgosaric!

    Quite. Also, it reminds me that I need to buy some new jeans.

  • avatarSan Il Defanso

    I find myself drawn not to new releases, but to a state of catching up with old ones. Since I wasn't raised on a steady diet of GW and AH, I missed out on a whole bunch of great games. And since we're living in the Age of the Reprint, those great games are percolating back to the surface and calling out to me. I still have every intention of buying Talisman at some point, but I haven't yet. And the FFG games I've gotten the most play from in 2012 have been Wiz-War and Dungeonquest.

    And of course, I've had more than a couple moments this past year or so where I've looked at my shelf and thought that I'm pretty happy with what's there. There are always new games to look at and review, etc. But if I never got another one, I'd be pretty happy with what I have.

    A couple years ago, Noel Murray from the AV Club did a column called Popless, where he didn't buy any new music for a year and instead used that time as a way to take stock of the music he already had. I think that would be a fascinating project for a game writer, particularly one who is really steeped in the review churn. I know that some time away from the "new" often makes me appreciate the old more. After all, the whole industry is based on making you feel like your old games aren't good enough.

  • avatarBullwinkle  - re:
    Sagrilarus wrote:
    I'm reading the rule book for Source of the Nile, an old game that is very well regarded. I'll be honest. Some of the concepts look intriguing but the game's age is showing. There's functionality present that modern gamers (likely including all I play with and maybe me as well) won't be willing to sit for. At 2-4 hours playtime this one isn't due to be reprinted anytime soon.

    And more's the pity. This might be my favourite game of all time, and the fact there are never going to be any more SotNs may be why I've lost most of my interest in the hobby.

  • avatarldsdbomber

    Im on board with you Matt!

  • avatarMattDP
    Quote:
    A couple years ago, Noel Murray from the AV Club did a column called Popless, where he didn't buy any new music for a year and instead used that time as a way to take stock of the music he already had. I think that would be a fascinating project for a game writer, particularly one who is really steeped in the review churn.

    Yes, I've thought about doing this very thing myself. But he probably got paid for his writing, and I don't. So giving up review copies would be giving up the recompense for all the time I spend at the keyboard keeping you lot entertained. Aside from your joyous and appreciative feedback, of course.

    Of course if anyone feeling like subbing me a few hundred quid to undertake this experiment, that'd be different :D

  • avatarqwertymartin  - re:
    sgosaric wrote:
    I'd say it all depends where you get your excitement and what do you play for.


    Good post Samo. These points came up on an Opinionated Gamers discussion of the Cult of the New a while back, and gave me more appreciation of why some people like to play lots of new games a few times each, rather than fewer games more times.

    I don't think it's as simple as a Euro vs AT or game clubs vs groups of friends divide though. I play mainly Euros in a mainly Euro-based club, but there are several of us there who are more into replaying a few games than learning all the new ones.

  • avatarEgg Shen

    I can agree with alot of what this article is saying. I think as a person who plays boardgames you eventually come to this particular crossroad. You take stock of the shit on your shelf and say...christ, I don't even play half of what I got...why should I buy another game? Then you come to realize, well dammit, I AM going to play the shit I got! Then you try to play the games you already own to try and justify the stupid amounts of money you've sunk into this hobby.

    I'm not going to lie...I still have a handful of games in my collection that I've never played. Thankfully that number is much lower than it was a year ago, but I'm still trying to get through all of my games. It seems a waste to not play them. At the same time, I'm trying to focus on playing games that I already enjoy in my collection. So I'm sort of stuck with this conundrum of playing new games I've bought or sticking to my old favorites. The old favorites seem to be winning out more often these days. Not having to learn rules and just being able to set up the game and play is a great boon to a game night.

    I'm also with San Il Defanso...I didn't grow up with all these cool GW and AH games. So this age of reprints is a boon. I've been able to play stuff like DungeonQuest, Wiz War, Cosmic Encounter, Talisman and others for the first time. Believe it or not, my favorite boardgame designs are almost universally older games. Very few modern games really stick with me. Vlaada Chvatil's games are some of the few that really standout. Most of the modern era games I own don't get played nearly as much as my reprints do.

    Honestly, the lack of interesting games coming out is a blessing for me. I have enough games in my collection to keep me entertained for years. When new stuff comes out, it just means that my favorite games will get less table time. I've come to realize that the few times a month I get to play games, I'd rather be playing something I love than experiencing the new flavor of the month.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    I'm with you, Matt. I pretty much have everything I want at this point. I am missing a good naval skirmish game, which I'd really love, and I just bought my first "new" games in a long time; I KS'ed Pixel Lincoln and I spent $150 on Strange Aeons minis and whatnots. But you're dead on - there's just not a whole lot we've not seen before a million times.

    Even World Conquerors, which is really smart, is simply taking a Smallworld approach to a traditional DOAM. It's as if each game is a slight alteration on its predecessors, advancing in one area while taking a step backward somewhere else.

    It's like Hollywood...there's only so many things that you make games about, only so many different permutations on mechanics. At this point, it's really about keeping the compulsives awash in their NEWSHINYPRECIOUSes to keep publishers' doors open.

  • avatarShellhead

    The Cult of the New should be re-named as The Cult of the New Purchase. Too many of these "new" games are just recycling the same old mechanics with different themes. That said, old games aren't necessarily always better. Even some of the classics tend to have some issues in terms of length, complexity, or just cumbersome mechanics.

    I have nearly 100 games, and I don't play boardgames enough to get more than 20 of those games on the table in any given year, so I have become very careful about buying additional games, either new or old. The only game I bought this year was a first edition Dune that was in pretty good shape. And even though I got it months ago, I still haven't gotten around to playing it yet.

    The music analogy makes sense to me. Some people only listen to current pop music, and those people suck. And some people are stuck in the past, listening to their favorites songs from age 15, whether that is the Rolling Stones or Nirvana. I never stop trying new music, though I avoid pop stations like the plague due to my inability to tolerate auto-tuned voices. And yet my favorite songs span decades, from as recent as this year to all the way back to the '30s. Science-fiction writer Theodore Sturgeon once proclaimed Sturgeon's Law, that 90% of everything is crap. To me, that says that 10% of everything is not crap, so I'm willing to look anywhere for that 10%.

  • avatarSagrilarus  - re: re:
    Bullwinkle wrote:

    And more's the pity. This might be my favourite game of all time, and the fact there are never going to be any more SotNs may be why I've lost most of my interest in the hobby.


    It's almost a different hobby. Source of the Nile is a game you play on the living room table over the period of an entire Saturday afternoon. You get up from the table to get a snack or order a pizza, the game is on the TV . . . I don't mean to say that you don't have your head in the game, it's just that the pacing and the nature of the engagement is different. The game is designed to use 40% of your clock speed. Downtime isn't merely present but a part of the culture of the game.

    Some modern wargames still have it. I think a lot of them are moving on to deeper engagement as well.

    S.

  • avatarmikecl  - re:
    sgosaric wrote:
    Writing about this made me wonder about how I game. A time for some mid year resolutions it seems... I will play the good games I have more, instead of trying the mediocre games I can borrow, I will try to get the kind of gaming group together that'll play the games I'm interested in and so on.

    This is exactly where I'm at right now. I just spent the weekend camping and playing Awful Green Things from Outer Space and Fury of Dracula.

    I'm not including AGT here (good camping game is all), but older games are getting reprinted today because there were a lot of creative designers taking the time to make theme heavy games with depth and soul. Yes they took hours to play, but we had the time and they were worth it.

    I'm not sure in the rush to produce a new game every year there's the same care and development taken with them today. That said, I still love this hobby and every once in awhile a truly great game like War of the Ring comes along....oh wait. That's a reprint too. LOL. Well Merchants and Marauders then!

    I have to say since Dungeon Lords, Vlaada nothwithstanding, I'm also pretty much (with the exception of Dominant Species) done with worker placement too.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT  - re:
    sgosaric wrote:
    I'd say it all depends where you get your excitement and what do you play for....

    ...Writing about this made me wonder about how I game. A time for some mid year resolutions it seems... I will play the good games I have more, instead of trying the mediocre games I can borrow, I will try to get the kind of gaming group together that'll play the games I'm interested in and so on.

    On that same Chris Norwood blog that the brouhaha spilled over to last week, this gentleman was asking about how I scored games, and I responded that I'd rarely buy a 7.5. He was furious and said that it was disingenuous to rate a game as a 7.5, praise it, and then say that I wouldn't buy it.

    I then went on to describe (and then elaborate on, on my site) an analogy which really isn't fit for reprinting, but boiled down to the fact that if you're standing at a whorehouse with 10 women, all the same price, are you going to go for the dime, the total package, or are you going to settle for an 7.5? Unless the 7.5 is the only black girl there and you have a real thing for black girls, you're going to just take the 10 back the the back room because, given the option and all things being equal, there's no reason to settle when you're paying the bill.

    As much as he doesn't understand why I'd say that a 7.5 is a fun game, or even brilliant, but wouldn't buy it, I can't understand why HE WOULD BUY IT.

    If it's not at least an 8, I'm really not going to fuck with it. And again, it's got to have some serious charm. Maybe an Australian accent?

  • avatarShellhead

    That's the thing, sometimes that 7.5 game is the only black girl and I happen to me in the mood for a black girl. So to speak. Or to use a more reasonable analogy, sometimes I'm in the mood for thai food, even if the only reasonably close thai place is just okay. I hang out here at F:AT because I love boardgames with strongly-implemented themes and settings. And some themes or settings are only rarely used, like cyberpunk or kung-fu. So I am willing to buy a 7.5 game if it fills that kind of occasional need. That's why I might buy Infiltration at some point. It sounds at least okay, maybe even good, and it has that cyberpunk feel.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    Yeah, but for me, the Thai food is worth the 30 miunte drive if it's much better at the other joint. If I want something, I don't want a watered down version of it, or a place where they serve the Pad Thai but not the crazy-strong iced coffee. I want it all, and I'm willing to pay/drive to get it.

    It's just a difference in philosophy, that's all. For instance, I own Star Fleet Battles, Star Trek Tactics, A Call To Arms, and Federation Commander. I'm still trying to determine if the sacrifices made in Federation Commander to shorten gameplay is too much a compromise from SFB, but then I'm trying to determine if ACTA is really the best of all worlds since it's the combat that really makes these games fun, not the power allocation. And Wizkids? Those are just the props. :)

  • avatarwaddball

    Good article. I've been slowing down a lot on new games, and you've articulated most of the reasons why. I think there's still innovation in the industry, but there's a threshold at which the core experience just isn't different enough to rationalize away the opportunity cost.

    As I hit my mid-40s, I struggle finding time to play games at all. It's a lot of work to make it happen IRL with my friends and all our family-centric lives. So I'm not as inspired to get to all the new stuff, as I'm measuring a lot of my games' unplayed shelf life in years, not months.

    But even before this rough patch, there was more wishful thinking going on than I prefer to acknowledge. So many games, even the "samey" Euros people like to complain about here, have a lot to offer if you dig in and play them over and over. But the opportunity cost problem will not go away: we all have X time to allocate for games, and it's a pretty hard limit.

  • avatarsgosaric  - re: re:
    qwertymartin wrote:
    These points came up on an Opinionated Gamers discussion of the Cult of the New a while back, and gave me more appreciation of why some people like to play lots of new games a few times each, rather than fewer games more times.

    I've checked this discussion and boy, do I have things to say.

    1. Soloism.
    I've hinted at this, but let's look at it. Some players/reviewers say they get excitement from opening new game, exploring new strategies, finding new innovative mechanics. That's a soloistic sport, does not demand anything of the group other than filling the sits. Actually when I admire innovative mechanic, it's often before or after the game, not during, during the game I'm immersed in the game and interaction or competition. To experience these qualities of new games, it's enough to play solo.

    I was hinting at this with games-as-puzzles and here it's where it's at it seems. What baffles me is why do these gamers insist of playing multiplayer games? Enjoying quiet time together and comparing scores at the end? Reminds me of you now the nerds at school - trying to impress the others by having the best score? I'm going on empty here. Let's move on.

    2. Feelings and herding
    One reason many people play new games in club/gaming night situation is that in fluctuating enviroment new gamers wouldn't be scared by a game everybody playing knows the ins and outs. Yes, I was told that and I see the reasoning. Don't get it though. In high school we played this relatively complex slovenian trick taking game for all 4 years, every day and you just don't get it the first time and? I'll be making broad generalisations here, but it seems the same reason why one would preffer puzzles - so that's no conflict situations, everybody's nicey nicey and no frustration is to happen in a gaming situation. Last year I picked up online diplomacy, knowing that I'll probably be upset. I was, for a week, then I learned how to handle it, than I began winning. My feeling is that with groups that try to avoid stress unless dealing with it, it will burst somewhere and then it will be mighty weird - like in getting what games to play. Passive aggressive stuff and all that.

    In situation where people don't know each other well it's harder to make consensus about the game to play and again we are in situation that the compromise is a new game I might like next to the one I know I don't. But again it's a cop out.

    In general we're dealing with people engaging in social situation that don't want to deal with the fact that its a social situation. Goes against my gut feeling - if I'd created a new group, I'd insist of playing games with talking (trading, party games, co-ops) afew times so that we get to know each other and start to enjoy each other's company. But I guess that's democracy.

    3. How did we get here?

    No idea, but Barnes did make a good point in The game that ruined eurogames article. Seems like the time that the german games changed to euro puzzles. Some of it was surely demographic shift into more "nerdy" demographic. Something might be due to the fact that there was less and less leisure time available, hence games have to get quicker and it's hard to get to game night every week, hence the argument about new games not favouring people who played them more times.

    More and more my conclusion is that me and those guys are not in the same hobby. It might seems I'm bashing them and all (I did need some venting), but truly the only problem there is, is this illusion of us being in the same hobby. We play for different reasons.

    I think that the hobby as a way of playing games is to blame for ruining games. By ruining I mean adapting it to hobby needs - fast circulation and all. They're not games in the sense of self sustained products made for long time enjoyment, these are not games to be played, they are to be "hobbied" - to be played once, similar to sealed MtG tournaments. (the comment on the discussion that most games aren't worth 3 plays blew me away, that's a shitty product, it's okay as a sealed tournament experience I guess). To save games we should think of avoiding the hobby and the hobbyists in order to enjoy the games: to push for a games as slow food, ones that are enjoyed in a friendly company with people who have time to play them.

    And actually thinking of it - there is life outside of clubs and game nights. I get the feeling of FFG products being enjoyed a lot by table top minis players and various teenagers. Even most innovations that were done in the last years, were done by people arriving from another type of gaming - like CCGs and tabletop minis (Summoner Wars, the whole deck building genre).

    qwertymartin wrote:
    I don't think it's as simple as a Euro vs AT or game clubs vs groups of friends divide though. I play mainly Euros in a mainly Euro-based club, but there are several of us there who are more into replaying a few games than learning all the new ones.

    You don't count. :P
    Seriously, I follow your comment on games because you're into old school euros where the emphasis was on interaction or in another word - these are games, what I mean by euros is puzzles. Of course I'm generalising, but I'm interested in your take on it.

    I do think there is a split in audiences regarding:
    - conflict level (yes or none of it)
    - socialising(interacting aspect (yes or not important)
    What's actually surprising is what Matt mentioned in "up to 11 article" - is that there is some mixing of audiences happening and gives us "illusion" that we're in the same hobby. We all know how to learn complex rules and understand how to play a game and use the pieces of cardboard and wood or plastic and the same publisher can publish the game for this or that audience as printing technology is the same. I'm from theatre and contemporary theatre/dance and drama theatre audiences mostly don't mix, maybe there's two theatres in our country in which both audiences could find something interesting they can grasp, but they want different things out of theatre.

    One problem that I get from that discussion on Opiniated Gamers is questioning reviewers who by their inclination have similar habits to cultists of the new, meaning a lot of reviewers are cultist of the new. Cultist of the old write strategy articles.

    wow, many generalisations. I feel a bit better now.
    @ pete - you crack me up.
    Problem though with boardgaming is that it's a group sex and hence needs general consensus at the "allowed" behaviour and all that.

  • avatarldsdbomber

    There are a lot of mental health issues related to compulsive spending, hoarding and collecting stuff. Many of these conditions are also related to specific kinds of intelligence, often on the more capable end. I don't think this is a coincidence. Though I think we all talk and write too much about games to be honest. I know I'm getting bored of it, so am trying to wean myself off it by just blathering when I'm sat waiting for Petra to come home.

    its the same with the high faluting tooting talk on BGG. A lot of it just comes across as too much about the people writing stuff, and not enough about the games,. too much blathering about new games, and games not worth it.

    If you want to lump games in with art and music and books then we need to realise that 90% of games are actually NOT WORTH WRITING ABOUT. Like, at all. They can still be fun to some people, enjoyable, whatever words are allowed now since the rules about using subjective words were recently passed by the minds of knowing. All I see right now is wave after wave of woe is me hand wringing about the state of board game criticism, and hardly anything about great games, and even a lot of the decent written stuff is still about games that just aren't worth the time of day, at least thats how I feel. I know thats out of step with most of you.

    But really, I just want to play games, and am hoping the iPad will let me do that more often in bigger groups than I have access to at home. And I've probably gone through over 1000 games on my shelves in the last couple of years. I now have about 20. Still too many. Theres 1 new game I might get.

  • avatarMattDP
    Quote:
    If you want to lump games in with art and music and books then we need to realise that 90% of games are actually NOT WORTH WRITING ABOUT. Like, at all. They can still be fun to some people, enjoyable, whatever words are allowed now since the rules about using subjective words were recently passed by the minds of knowing. All I see right now is wave after wave of woe is me hand wringing about the state of board game criticism, and hardly anything about great games, and even a lot of the decent written stuff is still about games that just aren't worth the time of day, at least thats how I feel. I know thats out of step with most of you.

    Actually I think this is very likely true. The only point on which I'd differ is that I firmly believe it's worth hand-wringing in order to try and spread the message that it's worth improving not only the quality of the writing, but the quality of games that are chosen to write about too.

  • avatarplaydead

    Really enjoyed the article, Matt! I'll turn 60 in two weeks (!), so I'm in full pre-curmudgeon mode at this point.

    I recall those days when I could barely contain myself upon seeing info. re. an upcoming game release. These days, I look at the stuff coming out and yawn at 95% of it...at least.

    Part of this comes from being retired from full-time teaching, so my wife and I live on our retirement incomes + my part-time tutoring job during the school year. A more limited income definitely gives me pause when looking at new game purchases!

    I've also had to conclude that, at my age, I own a lot of games that will never see table time. So that has led me to part with boardgames and RPG stuff that I thought at one time that they'd be prying from my cold dead fingers someday. The Horror on the Orient Express box for Call of Cthulhu, an unpunched copy of Star Wars: the Queen's Gambit, ETC. I've purchased quite a lot of stuff over the years and it was all well-intended: I planned to play them all! But it hasn't happened. So lots of my stuff is now going to better homes.

    Regrets? Not really. Because it's all "stuff". And my once-held conviction that "he who dies with the most toys wins" is long-gone. In recent years, I have found myself falling into that Cult of the New pit. Our game club is a prime example. There just aren't that many games we re-visit. Sad, really.

    I had thought that retirement from full-time work would free up loads of time for me to game. It's certainly true that I myself have the time, but my gaming buddies are all younger and still employed! And I've all but lost interest in playing solitaire boardgames, even great ones DESIGNED for solo play like Ambush! Played a LOT of that one years ago, but my interests have shifted.

    Don't mean for this to sound morbid or hopeless! I'm still really enjoying the gaming I do with friends. And I've discovered the joys of gaming on the iPad recently! I'd never played Ascension or Summoner Wars before installing the apps for them. Have now played DOZENS of games of Ascension and am having a blast doing it! My physical copy of the game, ironically, sits on the shelf unplayed.

    As I continue to cull the herd of my game collection, I certainly find that I have those gems that I won't part with and I will continue to play. As a "veteran" gamer, I feel a responsibility to make sure the young pups out there are exposed to classics like some of the Sid Sackson designs and others that have withstood the test of time. Many of the current hot titles will be in landfills while (hopefully) folks are still playing The Great Ones like those.

  • avatarwadenels

    Great write-up and a lot of awesome comments. I've been "proper gaming" for only about 3 years now, and have logged over 400 board game plays, which is really probably more like 200 independent games. So I've got a lot less experience than most of the people here, but I'm still getting tired of seeing the same mechanics with a different color ribbon attached.

    I think a big part of it is that the pace of new releases takes a serious time investment just to keep up with. It seems like every Tom, Dick, and Harry is a game designer or publisher now. Most the reviews are positive. Most of the games aren't truly that exciting. It takes time to make an informed purchase that is actually focused on the actual game you're buying and not the purchase you're making. Then it's all compounded by us making the statement, "We've accumulated too many games." By that I mean that we have so many games that it's easier to be indecisive than to get a box off the shelf and slap that bastard down on the table. We've spent money on games that aren't that awesome, but the money spent drives a perceived obligation to get our money's worth. So our awesome games languish while we try to spread our gameplay out across our entire collection, mediocre titles and all. In the end I look at the new titles being released, look at the amount of time I would invest to really look into them fully, look at all the mediocre shit on our shelves already, and the net result is very few new titles look even slightly interesting.

    But we've got good games. Awesome games. They aren't new, and it doesn't matter. We're selling off a big chunk of our collection to focus on the other chunk that we really enjoy playing. I'm with Pete when he says, "We're going for the 10s."

  • avatarErik Twice

    What I have discovered is that not even the tens matter. There are too many tens, too much amazing. It's not enough for me for a game to be really good, it must be my kind of "black girl" too. (I can see a fun term being created here)

    And it took me long to realize that. More than a hundred games, in fact. Until two years ago, I was a collector, and a shitty one. I got all the gems, the hidden platformers for the Genesis, all modern Atlus rpgs and a PC game here and there. And the... I stopped. I had a hundred games in my shelf and I was still bored. The boxes and history behind each title were great but I didn't care, I was bored.

    And the games were great. Really great, most often widely regarded as "one of the best games ever made". But I didn't like them. I didn't like ICO, I didn't like Zelda or actually cared about R-Type. I fell into the quality trap, where you buy a game because it's good, not because you want it.


    So I'm avoiding the same problem when it comes to boardgames. Did you notice how obsessive I am when I ask for advice? That's why, I don't want a good game anymore, I want the best of the best and also the game I would love.


    Source of the Nile sounds like a fun concept. Shame it has no interaction going for it. Oh, well.

  • avatarBullwinkle  - re: re: re:
    Sagrilarus wrote:
    It's almost a different hobby. Source of the Nile is a game you play on the living room table over the period of an entire Saturday afternoon...Downtime isn't merely present but a part of the culture of the game.

    Some modern wargames still have it. I think a lot of them are moving on to deeper engagement as well.


    I've been thinking this exact same thing over the past few months as I've tried to decide why nothing really clicks with me anymore. In particular, the proliferation of well-designed board games on iOS has made me realize that most board games just don't have what I want to be more than a mildly entertaining distraction.

    Games like SotN stand out because they're experiences, designed from the ground up to simulate some kind of adventure. The fact that it's a game seems almost secondary. I guess that's why I much prefer deep videogames and RPGs. I see that some wargames do still have it, but unfortunately, I'm less interested in those, too.

    Erik Twice wrote:
    Source of the Nile sounds like a fun concept. Shame it has no interaction going for it.


    No, but if you ever game solo, it's fantastic.

  • avatarJeff White  - re:
    Erik Twice wrote:
    It's not enough for me for a game to be really good, it must be my kind of "black girl" too. (I can see a fun term being created here)

    I agree with the sentiment and we definitely need a better a term. In another thread, mikecl was talking about how Magic Realm gives him a satisfying game experience every time he played. Same kind of thing there. MR may be a 10 in design, etc but it really strikes a chord with mikecl so he'd separate it from the rest of the 10 herd. (not to put words in his mouth)

    So, what do we call these games that are our 'number 1' or our game that rises above the rest? Surely, something more fun than 'my favorite game'.

  • avatarShellhead

    Jeff, I call Arkham Horror my desert island game.

  • avatarldsdbomber

    I still think the drive is too thinly spread across the gamut of games. I suspect more than 90% of the games on BGG aren't very good, or at least, you can probably pick any 1 from a 1000 because you have some random connection to some bit of it.
    Jedward is still Jedward. I dont care if you ask Will Self to write a thorough review of their cultural impact, or some ace music writer to discuss how clever their chord progressions are. I know theyä're not good. They're a pair of fucking idiot twits getting rich on the dumb fuckers buying their records, mainly schoolgirls. I don't want any higher quality writing about Jedward, nor about McDonalds, nor about Michael Bay movies. High quality writing about those is NOT going to drive forward the next David Lynch to appear, nor the next Heston Blumenthal, nor the next Radiohead. Thats my point. This whole appeal for in depth quality writing feels too internal, too much looking at our own backsides at how clever WE are, instead of being about the games, because there doesn't seem to be anyone talking about trying to find or highlight the games that are actually good or great, or innovative, or how they've driven a genre.

    The only stuff like that I've read is some of Nate Straights stuff, e.g. on Agricola, Roads & Boats etc. There are also some great writers I enjoy who do write about great games because they have great taste (Martin springs to mind!), but for example Matt (Thrower), your writing is fantastic, but I'm not even sure you don't sometimes spend a lot of great column inches talking about entirely forgettable games, though to be fair you do it in a way that's more useful because you tend to fit it into an overall view of the genre etc (which is something Id like to see more of). Maybe a better example is Matt Drake. What a shame, that guy is a great writer, funny, concise and great to read but most of the stuff he reviews is shite. A waste of everyones time, including his. And mine. BUt he gets some free games, and thats fair dinkum if he gets something out of it.

    Thats also what I see with some of the "name" reviewers on BGG. Everyone is talking about how come no one dares be too negative, but there's a quieter problem, and its this, those guys getting these preview copies, and free games are forced to review them, so we get to see it, BGG gets to see it, the hotness gets to see it, they are, like it or not, only adding to the cult of the purchase something new, no matter how smart they try to pick apart the game, and thats why I want to see more selective reviews of games that ARE good, i.e. old enough to have stood the test of time, have not been given to you as part of a hotness shill, and have been exposed to play under different groups and conditions. And definitely not enough writing about genres, mechanics, themes and ideas in general, with examples across the genre and history, then it makes sense for more studied output.

    If you fill an article with 15,000 words from a thesaurus, obfuscate it like a surly embedded C programmer, and throw in as many buzzword bingo words as you can that seem to be popping up now (this new wave of quality writing seems to be making people ashamed of calling a spade a spade), it still doesn't mean crap if it's about some dull, boring, derivative game thats just (another old game) with (another new coat of paint) and (wow, the neat twist here is) (insert not very neat twist).

    The only way to actively discourage this is NOT to write about these unworthy games, and instead increase the output on games that are a few years old and have been battle proved, at least, not in a "critical and analytical way".

    It's not going to happen so I'll just bah humbug here and continue to see 99% of the output to read being about the latest, greatest new thing (again) knowing full well its just because a shiny new copy is sat on the reviewers table as they help to "spread the word".

  • avatarKen B.

    The only reasons that this is an issue at all:

    1. Board games are more expensive than some forms of entertainment
    2. Board games take up a lot of shelf real estate.

    I see people talking all the time about reviewers only covering...I don't know, older games? Now imagine a music reviewer said, "I'm not covering any new releases, only the stuff I already have right now." While it might make for an interesting experiment on someone else's dime, fact is that that notion on any sort of sustainable scale is silly.

    Reviewers cover new releases; that's what reviewers do.

    Good article, Matt.

  • avatarldsdbomber

    Of course not, thats the point. But dont try to output Homers Odyssey about a game thats approximately 7 minutes old. Its a waste of time, thats why I dont get the opposition to first play reviews, theyre not less informed than a 5 play review or some of the in depth stuff ive seen where people just use buzzwords to sound like they're studying the game. Its consumer driven, BGG is all about pushing new games and selling new games, it is what it is. But the variation in something like a music album, or movie, compared to its predecessors seems to be much larger than the variation in games at a deep lying level. Sure, the art can be different, the components, and the "twist" but by and large there are probably a handful of games that just exist in 1000 variants.

    Actually dont know why I keep posting, I think I'm just bored and tired of everything right now

  • avatarsgosaric  - re:
    ldsdbomber wrote:
    Thats also what I see with some of the "name" reviewers on BGG. Everyone is talking about how come no one dares be too negative, but there's a quieter problem, and its this, those guys getting these preview copies, and free games are forced to review them, so we get to see it, BGG gets to see it, the hotness gets to see it, they are, like it or not, only adding to the cult of the purchase something new, no matter how smart they try to pick apart the game, and thats why I want to see more selective reviews of games that ARE good, i.e. old enough to have stood the test of time, have not been given to you as part of a hotness shill, and have been exposed to play under different groups and conditions. And definitely not enough writing about genres, mechanics, themes and ideas in general, with examples across the genre and history, then it makes sense for more studied output.

    Well Tom Vasel has gone in this direction - many of games he would review as "meh", "okay but not great", "do not recommend it", good if you like that sort of stuff and so on. He also reviews children games and has been reviewing his old classics lately. Of course this is fuel by his constant outpouring of many new games, it's good that some are fairly obscure. There's a small fraction that catches my interest, but for the format Tom has, I think he's going the right way.

    Problem is, that Tom had to fight the mainstream backlash and had to build up his credentials to get here. I don't see many other reviewers having that amount of consciousness about the games they're covering. Problem might be though that I might just fail to see them - the style you're describing does not give you high visibility by quantity. BGG is not structured in a way to help with this, but blog structure might be the way to go - gain leadership and not be limited to reviews only, hence building up one own stance as a writer.

  • avatarJeff White  - re:
    Shellhead wrote:
    Jeff, I call Arkham Horror my desert island game.

    Thinking about it more, I may have missed the point. Would there be, should there be a term for a game one likes/wants regardless of if it's good or not. You mention possibly getting Infiltration even if it isn't a top shelf game...it has a theme _you're_ interested in so therefor there's some extra value there for you.

  • avatarMattDP  - re:
    ldsdbomber wrote:
    There are also some great writers I enjoy who do write about great games because they have great taste (Martin springs to mind!), but for example Matt (Thrower), your writing is fantastic, but I'm not even sure you don't sometimes spend a lot of great column inches talking about entirely forgettable games, though to be fair you do it in a way that's more useful because you tend to fit it into an overall view of the genre etc (which is something Id like to see more of).

    It's a fair and valid point, but it to some extent it comes with the territory of being a writer. I have cover all the bases, as it wouldn't be entirely fair to my readers if I stuck only with games I wholly approve of. Also, I feel I need to play and write about a variety of games to put things in proper context. And again there's the money issue - to get review copies I have to review new material on a regular basis, so focussing on what you love is a luxury afforded to the salaried writer.

    That said, I could certainly do more focussed down on the things I love most. And I think that's good advice that I'll take on board. I can't do it now: with my baby-jail limited free time I have to play whatever I can when I get the opportunity. But in the near future, it's a solid plan.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    A "guilty pleasure" game. That's a game you really shouldn't want or like because it's not that good, but you do because it has something desirable to you, for some unknown reason.

    And as far as writing about shitty games, we need to do that as it's a public service. Sort of like the "Wet Floor" signs put up as a warning so you don't fall and bust your ass.

  • avatarmikoyan

    I wonder how much of it is just the game industry being like the movie industry and not wanting to take a chance on something completely new?

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    Can't be. Kick starter levels the playing field so any game you can come up with can be reality.

    They're out of ideas.

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