Articles Rants & Raves Barnestorming #94.23- Barnes Best 2000-2009, XCOM, Puma Blues, Echo and the Bunnymen
 

Barnestorming #94.23- Barnes Best 2000-2009, XCOM, Puma Blues, Echo and the Bunnymen Barnestorming #94.23- Barnes Best 2000-2009, XCOM, Puma Blues, Echo and the Bunnymen Hot

barnesbest It's not me.

On the Table

Barnes’ Best, 2000-2009. Shut up about it, I’m finally done with that series. I have another one in the wings since I’m finally through there, something called “The Five Oppositions”. It’s going to be all arty and stuff. Watch for it sometime soon. Probably after some Cracked LCD classics and another Games from the Crypt. Gotta quit with these series…

Nothing new on the table this week, but my good buddy Ryan (aka “Hobbytown”) is leaving for Boston so we’ve got one last Cosmic Encounter-athon scheduled for Sunday. Angry that a friend would be so selfish as to betray me- and the rest of the Hellfire Club for a career.

Mice & Mystics is out, but according to Colby they’re not doing review copies until the second shipment so I’ll just have to hear about how awesome it is from some of you people.

Hey, I put my X-Wing stuff in a Plano box! If that doesn’t mean it’s a keeper, I don’t know what does.

 

On the Consoles

XCOM. Holy god, what a game. Take the X-Com you remember, but make it actually mature and evolve to be a 2012 game with…get this…a very board gamey design approach and that’s what the new one is like. One of the design team members is none other than Ananda “I designed Twilight Struggle with Jason Matthews” Gupta, so maybe that counts for something. The game is a stone cold masterpiece, quite possibly the best- and most concise turn-based strategy game released since…I dunno. It’s definitely streamlined and more accessible then some may want, but I think they’ve perfectly pared away all of the not-so-good stuff about the original game and made it something very now.

I was totally getting slaughtered at first, but then I remembered the wisdom of F:AT- “lay smoke you dick and use overwatch”. A practical application.

Halo 4 review copy here today or tomorrow. Very excited.

 

 

On IOS

In the throes of XCOM mania, I bought Aliens versus Humans. Played it for approximately three minutes and got distracted by something else. Looks like it might be a pretty good facsimile of the original X-Com.

 

On the Comics Rack

Boy howdy, does Ex Machina suck. Should have known, since it’s Brian Vaughn trying to write for adults. It reads like a Z-grade midseason replacement TV show. I read the first couple of story arcs and I was just utterly bored by it all, I don’t really know how I made it so far. Uninteresting characters, uninteresting situations, and an overarching sense that the writer thinks this stuff is really smart and adult for a superhero book. Too bad it’s terrible.

Tried to get into Archer & Armstrong, but I’m just not feeling it. It doesn’t help that the first few issues are part of a huge Valiant crossover. I’m also just not getting the characters. It all feels very second string…something you’d buy out of the .25 cent box for the hell of it but you’d never want to pay full price for it.

The “blown away” book this week though is Puma Blues, a sort of obscure titled published in the mid to late 1980s by none other than Dave Sim, through his Aardvark International imprint. It’s an oddly eerie, subtle science fiction story with political and ecological subtexts. The art is done by Michael Zulli, who went on to do several issues of Sandman, but it’s all scratchy line drawing- strangely effective, in much the same way that Eddie Campbell is effective. The story is compelling- mostly about this guy that’s kind of a wildlife relocator living in isolation, zapping flying manta rays with this gun that reconfigures their molecular structure elsewhere. But then there’s a group of terrorist racists that stage a coup, killing the president and nuking the Bronx. Lots of very punk rock, 1980s politics. I’ve just got a couple of books, but I’d like to see the whole run. Definitely more of a Tarkovsky-style Sci Fi than a Lucas one.

Also continuing to plow through Judge Dredd. The Judge Child Quest was fun with lots of goofy vignettes (Dredd gets killed by a Necromancer, eaten by a frog, and has serious issues with another judge’s moustache), but it wore on a little long. Loved the Angel Gang and Mean Machine, but I got eager to get back to Megacity One. Once there, I read through the Otto Sump story and a couple of others that were just freakin’ great. Laugh-out-loud funny stuff, cool science fiction concepts, and that classic 2000AD sense of satire. It’s funny, when you get to a Brian Bolland penciled story, it’s like the quality of the art just suddenly goes through the roof.

Other stuff- Spider-Man Blue  by Loeb and Sale was kind of nice…definitely minor, but nice. Love their take on the Green Goblin.  More Doom Patrol, the much-maligned “Space War” story y’all were talking about. Definitely feel like Morrison was messing around too much in that, but it’s not horrible. Also finally got my Doom Patrol archives books, digging into those this week.

 

On the Screen

Making the Halloween rounds, hitting the Universal stuff but moving on to the American International/Roger Corman Poe stuff this week. Such great movies, the American version of what Hammer was doing in a lot of ways. They’re very handsomely made films with just the right touch of gothic horror kitsch. It’s a toss-up between Tomb of Ligeia and Masque of the Red Death for the favorite…most bets would go with Masque, and it is probably the better film but I love Ligeia so freakin’ much. Watched Tales of Terror last night, the anthology, and just absolutely loved it all over again.

Also caught The Black Cat on TCM, one of the all-time great classic horror films. Lugosi versus Karloff in a very sophisticated, urbane, and modern gothic story. They also showed The Devil’s Bride (aka The Devil Rides Out), one of the best Hammer films, the other night. Christopher Lee is actually the good guy, but what do you do when Satan himself is the bad guy. Creepy film, definitely among Terence Fisher’s best work with the studio.

I’ll probably get around to Night of the Demon, Tombs of the Blind Dead, Jess Franco’s great Count Dracula, and probably a couple of the Val Lewton films this week. I’m thinking Seventh Victim and Isle of the Dead. Kind of Cat People’d and I Walked with a Zombie’d out, as great as those films are.

 

On Spotify

Sometimes I forget that Echo and the Bunnymen are one of my favorite bands. Strange. But every couple of years, I sort of forget about them until I put on the box set or a random album. This time, it was Heaven Up Here, widely regarded as their least accessible, most experimental record. When I first heard it long ago, I didn’t’ care for it because it didn’t have a “Do it Clean” or a “Killing Moon” on it. Not even a “Back of Love” or “The Cutter”. It’s their darkest, densest, and by far most post-punky record, falling somewhere along the spectrum of early Gang of Four and “Pornography”-era Cure with a dollop of Joy Division in there…and the usual Doors references. I’m really digging it, and I’m probably going to load up “Porcupine” next.

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Comments (56)
  • avatarbfkiller

    I PVR'ed a bunch of the TCM Hammer movies. So far I've watched The Gorgon and The Mummy (both enjoyable, but I preferred The Mummy) and I've still got The Devil's Bride, Frankenstein Created Woman, and The Revenge of Frankenstein. I also recorded The Black Cat.

    Another horror-ish flick I watched on TCM this month was The Unknown, a silent movie directed by Tod Browning (Dracula, Freaks) and starring Lon Chaney as a criminal hiding out from the law by posing as an armless knife-throwing circus performer, where he falls in love with the ringleader's daughter (Joan Crawford) who is conveniently (though, it turns out, not so conveniently) repulsed by men's hands. Extremely dark movie with a great performance by Chaney. Up there with my favourite silent pictures.

  • avatarJonJacob

    Are you playing X-Com on the X-Box. I really wanted to play that game but I was worried the controls would suck on a console... or that's what my PC biased friends tell me anyway. Thus I've held off.

    Nice to see Barnes Best finished off.

  • avatarMattDP

    Nice jacket.

    Echo & the Bunnymen were one of my favourites bands when I was a teenager. Ocean Rain is the only album that still gets regular plays, but it gets quite a lot of regular plays. Seven Seas and The Yo Yo Man are amazing.

    I'm playing Amnesia: The Dark Descent for Halloween, not watching films. Nothing's actually happened in the game yet and it's already creeping me out. There will be words at NHS no doubt. I heard today about a horror story called "Granny's Grinning", founded on concepts so disturbing that I never, ever want to read it. Go on, look it up.

    Suppose I better go and read your picks, then come back and complain about them.

  • avatarMichael Barnes

    Oh, The Unknown is amazing, what a great film. Browning did some really out-there stuff...you should also see The Unholy Three and Devil-Doll, some of his more twisted films. Dracula and Freaks are of course his best known work, but there's definitely more to see.

    I really like The Gorgon, it has a really interesting melancholy tone. I don't know that I'd rank it over some of Fisher's better films (Brides of Dracula, of course, along with Horror of Dracula, Devil's Bride, and Curse of the Werewolf), but it's definitely interesting- and it's fun that it's a Gorgon causing all of those English gentlemen such inconvenience.

    The Mummy is good, I like Hammer's other Mummy films better. They're trashier, but more fun. I never liked Lee so much as the Mummy.

    Frankenstein Created Woman, that one's a hoot. I have a double disc that has it paired with Legend of the 7 Golden Vampires...which is, of course, a must-see.

    Revenge of Frankenstein is one of the better Hammer Franks...possibly the best. Although, when a film is called "Frankenstein Must be Destroyed", you can't possibly under-rate it.

    I wish they would show Twins of Evil on TCM so I can not have to watch this crap bootleg DVD...other than Brides of Dracula, it's probably the best Hammer film. I think it's Cushing's best performance outside of Van Helsing and Frankenstein. And Grand Moff Tarkin.

  • avatardragonstout

    The Black Cat is awesome, I love just about everything about that movie, even the corny and completely unnecessary comic relief interlude.

    I need to see more Val Lewton, all I've seen are Cat People, Zombie, and 7th Victim. I think I'm going to watch Bay of Blood / Twitch of the Death Nerve tonight after you pointed out that it's on Netflix streaming.

    Hammer Horror just bores the crap out of me, I have no idea what people see in it, not even from a "trashy" perspective.

    Ex Machina...I think I tried that one, but as you said, you really don't want to see Brian Vaughan attempting to make serious comments on modern society. Does someone *really* think that the next great political insight, gender relations insight, or insight into the Iraq War is going to come from Brian K. fucking Vaughan???!? But he KEEPS TRYING! High-profile comics about EACH of those topics! Stick to the teenagers, Brian.

    Connected to Vaughan: a while back, when you or me or someone was bashing Vaughan, someone else asked "what's so wrong with pop-culture references?" When I was reading Brubaker's Criminal last week, I realized that the really annoying thing about them is not that they date quickly; the annoying thing is that they take you completely out of the story you're reading because almost *without fail*, a pop-culture reference in someone's dialogue is NOT to show something about the character, but to show off what the AUTHOR likes. That's why it's fucking obnoxious and jarring.

    Barnes' Best: in my private guesses list, I called 6 out of 10 of them! Do I get a No-Prize? I need to play more Mare Nostrum and Imperial, but from my few plays of Mare Nostrum, I wasn't impressed. Seemed like a classic game of "stop the leader so that the second-place player can really take the win". The "careful attention" you describe as necessary in the trading is indeed necessary if you want to win, but also excruciatingly slow and boring, so any strategic implications are almost totally lost unless we really want to keep refiguring what cards people have left in their hand and who will pick which resource if I pick him blah blah blah. The very small number of special powers you can actually have by the end of the game is also disappointing; you have a lot to choose from, no doubt, but so little space to build any kind of combos or make multiple decisions about that. And is there a more game-y, unthematic mechanic in gaming than making CHOOSING THE TURN ORDER into a mechanic?

    I hate Chaos in the Old World, but I've explained my reasons for that elsewhere. I haven't thought about it much, but also can't imagine making my own best of 2000s list without Space Alert or Lord of the Rings. I think our only overlap would be BSG and LOTR:Confrontation.

  • avatarMichael Barnes

    Gamefly sent me the PS3 XCOM, so there it is. It's mildly glitchy in terms of visuals since it's an Unreal 3 game running on PS3, but it's functionally the same. The controls are outstanding. It was designed with console in mind, and it shows.The only complaint I would have is that it can be a little too easy if you're not paying attention and rushing it to accidentaly put a guy out of cover. But really, that's player error more than an interface issue. It's far, far better than RUSE, Halo Wars, or other games that have had controls that really should be done with a mouse, if that's what you're worried about.

    I was flipping through an old NME and it had an ad for Ocean Rain...I think it said something like "The greatest album of all time". The last time I saw Echo and the Bunnymen, Ian introduced "Ocean Rain" as the "best song ever written". Gotta love that English rock star arrogance. I really do.

    But Ocean Rain really is an amazing album. Every track is golden, and their combination of psychedlic pop, indie jangle, post-punk atmosphere and the string section is magical. I really wanted to see the show they did a couple of years ago, playing the whole album with an orchestra. Didn't come to Atlanta.

  • avatarShellhead

    Donny Darko won me over in the opening minutes with the song "Killing Moon." I'm not a big Echo & the Bunnyman fan, though.

    I found Ex Machina moderately enjoyable, until the final trade, which I hated. The writing was okay, though BKV was writing something that most comic fans weren't looking for. Then again, many comic fans are apparently looking for anything by Bendis, so to hell with them. I'm not a fan of Tony Harris "artwork," because so much of his work looks like heavily photoshopped photos instead of original artwork. In particular, it bothered me that the main character looked so much like Steve Carell.

  • avatarHatchling

    Woohoo! AWESOME top 10 Barnes!! All my very favourite games are there!

  • avatarMichael Barnes

    The thing about Hammer that I love is that they appear to be very stuffy, proper English parlor drama. But then there's a monster that upsets everybody, and usually some wink-wink cheesecake and then some crappy blood. They're very simple, very Protestant films. Hardly epic in any sense, and I like that the same actors and locations are used. You get to where you can identify parts of the sets used across the films, like those twisty columns in Dracula's castle. Bernard Robinson, the set designer on pretty much all of their films up until he died, was kind of a genius. He was working almost no budget on films that had like two week shooting schedules and managed to come up with some very atmospheric, fairly convincing stuff. They're very quaint, not really scary at all...but I love them. There's very few Hammers that I think are just terrible. Lust for a Vampire would be one, but even it is unintentionally hilarious and incompetently made.

    You've seen the best Lewton/Tourneur films...you should definitely look at The Leopard Man. It's not Lewton, but Tourneur made Night of the Demon in England and it's one of the best horror films ever made. And it's very Lewton-esque.

    That is right on the money about pop culture references. It is amateurish showboating, plain and simple. "Look at what I like!" Probably the absolute worst ever is in World War Z, when the guy starts writing about Roxy Music and the Smiths. For no reason other than that's what he's into. Good job, guy! I like those things too!

    I really thought hard about putting LOTR on here...I've been thinking about it a lot lately, that is really an amazing design. Say all you want about playing friendship cards, but I don't know that there is another game that is more specifically about a very specific narrative arc...and it's really kind of genius how that arc becomes imbued with various outcomes and possibilities that do not change the overall trajectory. There is _no_ Tolkien game out there that better describes the themes of the book...which are not, in fact, fantasy battles. Those are events in the story, but not what it's about.

  • avatardragonstout

    My only criticism of Lord of the Rings is that, like the books, it is dead serious. It feels like an epic endurance test, and you're exhausted by the end because you've all been barely holding on for so long, and have had to deal with losing players and the hopefulness of the beginning of the game being drained away to the point where when you get to Mordor, I don't think you *ever* feel like "almost done!" It's always "there is no chance that we're going to dunk that ring".

    Of course, this "criticism" is also why I love it so much! It gets emotional, and not with the typical happy-time emotions that games create.

    Overall I probably prefer Space Alert as the best co-op, but they are *completely* different. Space Alert is lotsa laughs and yelling at friends for doing dumb things. Definitely gets even better with the campaigns in the expansion; more at stake! LOTR gets better with at least the first expansion, too (I've never played with Sauron).

  • avatarevilgit

    Somebody brought Imperial 2030 to my local game group last week. We played Village instead. Lesson learned. Guess I'll have to get him to bring it again next week....

  • avatarStan Leer

    I've figured out that my tastes and Barnes are wildly divergent. I suppose its about time. Should have suspected with the slight on Locke and Key.

    I liked Ex Machina. I enjoyed the pacing, I liked the back and forth of how his superhero identity informed his actions in office for good and for ill. I also like that it was very antisuperhero. The main character ultimately comes to the adult realization that despite having a super power, it doesn't allow him to affect real change in the world or make it a better place. Instead he uses it to achieve office where the main character is able to affect real meaningful change.

    You don't think that comics have some poltical insight or opinion? Of course they do? At least Ex Machina wore its politics on its sleeve. I appreciate that it tried to integrate politics into comics and in some ways needed the superhero angle to make it in the comic world.

    I tried Dredd and it was horrendous. Fascist fantasy bull shit. Ennis? Juvenile, junior high shock shlock. Ugh. Don't know how anyone can stomach Ennis. Read through three trades of Preacher and felt practically physical ill. Story awful. Pacing terrible. art was dreadful and every sentence and story line seemed designed to shock in a way that becomes tired in its excess..

  • avatarStan Leer

    I don't understand all the love for Nexus Ops. I have it. I have played it and have owned it since it first came out but I I always find it wanting. It is TOO streamlined. I never really feel like the game gets any head of steam behind it.

    I think Arkham Horror or Game of Thrones would have made my personal list before Nexus Ops. I'm a personl fan of Risk 2210 which was one of the first Risk variants to drag the old roll-fest into the modern age and make a fun but strategic game that was playable in a decent amount of time.

  • avatarMichael Barnes

    I think the concept of Ex Machina is interesting, I just think Brian Vaughn is nearly as good or clever a writer as he seems to think he is. Truth be told, I'm more interested in seeing what comes out of this election over at Marvel where Captain America got written in for President.

    I don't know, the whole thing felt like a purile attempt to "legitimize" a superhero story with supposedly adult-level writing...which to Vaughn seems to mean Thursday night on NBC quality writing and subject matter.

    As for Dredd...the fascism and machismo is 100% the point. He was written as a parody of neo-fascist American action heroes like (specifically) Dirty Harry. You're talking about a character that literally has zero frame of reference other than THE LAW. Reading the Judge Child story, the absurdity of this is made clearly apparent as Dredd just assumes his jurisdiction extends to other planets. And then there's this whole thing where he's suspicious of another judge because he has a damn moustache.

    Since you referenced Ennis (whom I agree is juvenile shock schlock most of the time), it sounds like you were reading 1990s or beyond Dredd. I actually haven't read any of that, my entire experience with the character is 1970s and 1980s so maybe the satire and parody is downplayed in favor of a more on-the-nose approach to this kind of ultra-authority figure.

    I'd definitely recommend some of the original John Wagner stuff...I think you might be surprised at how funny it is. Definitely not intended to be a serious take on fascist law enforcement at all.

  • avatarGary Sax

    There are some elements of XCOM that really irk me, but I have to remind myself of all the things that went right. Specifically, they shortened the missions to a lovely size. Enough to enjoy, but they never drag, I love that. Still, I have to mention some of them:

    1) It irritates the shit out of me that the enemy gets this instant move to cover when you first see them. You never get that sense that you ever catch THEM in the open, which is a key in this game, to me. When that used to happen, it maintained the illusion that they are fucking up and don't know exactly where you are too. Yes, you can overwatch with guys to hit them when you spawn them but it isn't the same.

    2) IMHO, almost all the units can move far too many squares. It renders cover extremely difficult to use, since the enemy can race 1/3 of the way across the map and still fire because movement range is so large. This irks me. You have to be insanely careful because it's way too easy to flank cover.

    3) I kind of loathe the new "spawn" system more generally of units showing up. It just leads to far too conservative play IMHO, since you know if you don't move forward 5 squares at a time with 4 of your guys in overwatch or ready to fire, they could spawn, automagically move huge distances into great cover, and then murder your guys in the upcoming move phase. I dunno, it feels very unfair, and not in a good XCOM way where the Sectoid hits a highly unlikely shot in your brains.

    4) There's no visual queue for LOS. Which wouldn't be a big deal if LOS was really logical and easy to see---but it isn't. You can see that from some of the shots you can take that surprise you, given the way the 3d model of the map looks. It's incredibly easy to get your nuts blown off moving forward, even though you think you're out of sight of an overwatching enemy. And this is information your soldiers WOULD know (can I see that alien?).

    But the game is still amazing and the best turn based game in ages and ages (ever?). And it looks great on the PC.

  • avatardragonstout  - re:
    Michael Barnes wrote:
    Ennis (whom I agree is juvenile shock schlock most of the time)


    I'm just gonna keep telling everyone until the Ennis-skeptics finally try it out and have their eyes opened: the Ennis-written Punisher MAX is incredible.

    Stan Leer wrote:
    At least Ex Machina wore its politics on its sleeve. I appreciate that it tried to integrate politics into comics and in some ways needed the superhero angle to make it in the comic world.


    Joe Sacco, among many others, hasn't seemed to really need the superhero angle to integrate politics into comics and "make it in the comic world". Ex Machina is just one in a long, long, long, tiring line of "__________ but with SUPERPOWERS!" comics, from Top 10 to Sleeper to Incognito to Supercrooks. I am sick to death of the high-concept comic book. Hell, I'm even sick of the high-concept movie. Anyway, my issue isn't even with Ex Machina's concept, it was with Vaughan's complete lack of insight into politics or just about anything.

  • avatarscissors

    I began gaming in 2005 so this list suits me quite well - I've played and own most of the games listed - I have never played Imperial and Mare Nostrum but have tried all the rest. The only game on the list I personally hated is Magical Athlete - I gave that away. I'd give the spot on the list to Mission: Red Planet or Last Night on Earth. And what, no honorable mention for Caylus???

  • avatarDair

    Ah, all you Brian Vaughn haters can just ignore him. I loved Y: the Last Man, enjoyed Ex Machina and I am currently enjoying Saga. Is he Alan Moore? No, but that doesn't mean he is terrible. I also was a huge fan of Garth Ennis. I still love Preacher and Hitman, but his newer stuff has mostly left me cold. He used to love a good shock, but mixed them in with characters that were interested and easy to invest in. Now I feel like his books are lacking that. Perhaps it is just me maturing and not being in high school any more. Maybe if I picked up Preacher for the first time today, I would hate it.

    I also want to tell Stan Leer to fuck off in regards to Steve Dillon (I mean that in the nicest possible way). That guy is one of the best artists out there. His art is clean and flows well from panel to panel. He is one of the best at telling a story with his art, unlike most of the crap out there that feels like splash panel after splash panel.

  • avatarGary Sax

    Also, on the top 10 games thing, it's a good list. I have a lot of them, and I like all the ones I have (though I've never tried my copy of Chaos in the Old World, though I rarely game anymore). Imperial at #1 is an interesting choice, I like the way that this is something you really only got into in the last few years IIRC from some of your forum posts. I think being able to honestly update your opinions later is always a good thing.

  • avatarBlack Barney

    I played the crap out of the XCOM demo because, on paper, this game is everything that appeals to me. Turn-based, board-gamey, tactical and some strategy as well. But I just got so bored of each combat in the demo. I can't explain it. It just doesn't appeal to me. I'm told the best part of the game is upgrading your HQ which I didn't do. I dunno, I guess I'll pass on it but your review bugs me now. Also the game totally looks like a game from the last generation of consoles.

  • avatarSan Il Defanso

    Finally, closure!

    Great list, and while I'd probably disagree with at least three or four of them (Confrontation and Wallenstein are both good games that I don't love, and Chaos in the Old World wouldn't make the cut either. I'm also one of those guys who kind of likes Steam better than Railroad Tycoon), it's all very articulate and well-thought-out. I definitely agree about BSG, Nexus Ops, and Imperial. Fine choices, those.

    The most interesting thing is how different this list would have looked even 2-3 years ago. It's really cool to see that evolution in your own writing and preferences, because it's mirrored my own evolution in game tastes. One of the real strengths of your body of work is that you've been able to help a lot of us articulate how we feel about games. I know it's helped me find a critical voice, even if we often have very different ideas of what makes a good game. So well done.

    And for the record, though series can become a burden for a writer, I think you do them really well. There Will Be Games remains some of your best work, so I look forward to the next one.

  • avatarShellhead

    I tried Preacher early this year. Made it through the first three trades and then stopped. I liked some of the main characters, and since I'm an atheist, none of the religious stuff offended me. But the stories were kind of crappy, and then there is that really ludicrous Arseface character. I felt like the whole comic had become a crude and stupid joke, despite the nice chemistry between Jesse and Tulip. My friends told me that I reminded them of Cassidy, but I didn't see it. Maybe this comic was cool in the '90s and it just hasn't aged well, or maybe I would find it more properly shocking and kewl if I believed in God at least a little bit.

  • avatarGary Sax

    Preacher has definitely not aged well.

  • avatarmetalface13

    I like Vaughan, but didn't like Ex Machina. Just didn't find the story or characters engaging at all. Also didn't like the art, which is all drawn from photo references and as Barnes mentioned, Photoshopped to hell.

    I agree about Ennis. I didn't like Preacher. I am religious, but I wasn't shocked at the cosmological implications, just thought it was dumb. I also don't like shock and gruesome violence for the sake of it. I also can't stand Mark Millar. Though I will say I was surprised I liked the Kick Ass movie as much as I did.

    I also tried reading a Judge Dredd collection. It was full wide range of stuff from the series. It was a bit too eclectic and hard for me to get into.

    Any more work on Fables, Barnes? Curious to what you think as you get further in the series, but judging on our general tastes, you won't like it much.

  • avatarShellhead

    I too can't stand the writing of Mark Millar. Judging by his writing, he is one of those assholes who gets through life believing that it's okay to be an asshole because everybody else is an asshole, too. So we get the Ultimates, who are basically the Asshole Avengers. Wanted dispenses with the notion of heroes entirely, so Millar can focus on writing about superhuman assholes without morality. Kick-Ass sounds like it might be his only decent work, and I will eventually give it a try.

  • avatardragonstout

    I love Preacher *a lot*, but really grew attached to it in high school and acknowledge all the dumb, juvenile humor. It continued to mean a lot to me when rereading it in college, and helped me deal with learning that my absolute best friend in college was actually a complete slimy asshole, as Preacher is primarily about the same. Steve Dillon is a good and competent artist, good at having his characters act and being very clear about what's going on, even if he does have the "everyone's got the same face" problem and he's not anyone I can get *excited* about. I haven't read it in a good long while, and there is a lot of stuff that I look at now and cringe. I'd believe it if someone said it hadn't aged well, but I have lent it out to a half-dozen friends who devoured it and loved it. I also loved Hitman, and I actually look forward to rereading that too.

    But Punisher MAX is untouchably good. Even if you HATE Preacher. When is anyone other than Z-Man and Superflypete going to listen...

    Sometimes Garth Ennis does just flat-out suck, though.

    Mark Millar: well, you just hit upon my biggest guilty pleasure. You knew there had to be one totally trashy comic I loved. I loved Millar's Ultimates, both 1 and 2. The comics are obnoxious, everyone's an asshole, but I just have a total blast reading them. "Hulk hate Freddie Prinze Jr." is probably the most indefensibly bad line of dialogue in a comic ever, though. His stuff from before he became popular and full of himself is also sometimes decent, like early Ultimate X-Men (I have some cheap for sale!), Superman Adventures, and his Grant Morrison collaborations. But yeah, for the most part, Millar is godawful.

  • avatarJonJacob

    I never liked Preacher, I think I was too old when it came out. I don't know, it wasn't just arsface but that stupid running joke with the bad guy who looks more and more like a penis every time something happens to him. But I really can't defend myself because I do love Mark Millar. I acknowledge he's not great but I love him anyway. Ultimates is amazing (best Hawkeye scene ever), I just love that book and I don't really see the asshole thing, except for Giant Man most of them are ok. I really like Wanted, Kick Ass is ok, I like his Jesus story "Chosen" quite a bit, Enemy of the State is the best Wolverine book for a teenager I can think of and that Wolverine one off in the concentration camp is decent too.

    I'm planning on getting Punisher MAX at some point because I've always loved that character, even though I can't stand Ennis. I have the origin story he did for the Punisher that takes place in Nam... it was good, I could read more of that. Punisher was my guy in high school but I got older and read through my collection of Punisher WarJournals and realized it was all crap. Even the limited edition series I loved so much is crap.. FUN crap though and I'll gladly waste a Sunday afternoon reading through those again.

    Astro City is still the best superhero stuff though, fuck all you guys for never talking about it. Two of the best singles of all time come from that series. Eagle and the Mountain and Show em All ... both about Villains. Sort of.

  • avatarMichael Barnes

    Alright Andy, I've got a pile of Punisher Max. Your comics cred is on the line here.

    Astro City is OK...some of it comes across as really maudlin to me for some reason. I did love the one with the vampire though, that was really good.

    Mark Millar is OK, but I liked his Authority books better than Ultimates. It made more sense for those guys and gals to be total fucking assholes than the Avengers. I thought he actually improved the book over what Warren Ellis was doing with it.

    As for Preacher...I'm glad I read it, but man, it is some trite ass shit. It's definitely not aged well, I tried to start it again not that long ago and I just couldn't take it. Pretty much, if you're a teen or young adult that thinks stuff with angels and demons is awesome, then it's your thing. There is some really cool stuff in the story, I loved the Saint of Killers and all the stuff at Masada, loved the Allfather, loved Cassidy falling in with the fake vampires...loved Jess and Tulip's relationship. But the headshots on every page, Arseface, and so on was just ridiculous. I did laugh when God bit out Jesse's eye.

  • avatarMichael Barnes

    San, I'm glad that you appreciate that it is a different list than it would have been a few years ago- in the past, there have been some folks that have gotten really pissy with me because of changing tastes and evolving ideas, claiming that I'm a "hypocrite" or whatever but I've always been for honesty, and if I develop a different opinion about a game, then I'm going to give it you. This happened with the Knizia LOTR and El Grande.I came around to them, reassessed them, and developed new appreciation for them coming from a different frame of reference.

    What was really interesting to me was looking at a list of the top games from this era- many of them widely beloved, widely played favorites like Arkham Horror and TI3- and realizing that most of them are not my favorite games.

  • avatarDair

    I'll give Punisher Max a chance. I've just got a reading list a mile long and Punisher doesn't excite me like he did 20 years ago.

    I'm with Shellhead about Astro City. I have enjoyed it since it came out. It is mostly light and somewhat forgettable, but I still like it. Michael, you are spot on about the vampire story being the best of the bunch.

  • avatarJonJacob

    Confession is the "Vampire Story" and yeah, that's the best of the long stories but it doesn't work as well as some of the singles, which is where Busiek shines most... The two singles I mentioned and the Beauty Special is amazing! and the one where Jack in the Boxs kids come back in time to see him, even the Silver Agent special are all better than Confession. His strength is shorts which is why his Conan run was so good. Conan is suited to short stories that have a vague connection, part of the reason why the movies have never really worked. I mean the first one's good, great even, but not really Conan.

  • avatarShellhead

    Astro City is okay. Sometimes it takes on a life of its own and is decent, and other times you can still see the DC/Marvel labels on the characters and it feels a bit shallow. That said, I really enjoyed the Tarnished Angel trade. I gave up partway through the Dark Age. I do like Busiek's work in general, and will definitely get around to his Conan at some point.

  • avatarscissors

    Looking over the list, one thing that strikes me is that most of the games don't have difficult, convoluted rulesets and most are also expansion-free or have one expansion at most. Is it a coincidence, Barnes, or is it that as you get older, have a family, face increasing time constraints, branch out into other interests/forms of socialising, that great nerdy byzantine games are no longer preferred?

    I'll still play a heavier three-hour game over three fillers any day but the attraction to stuff like Starcraft, Runewars, Descent 1.0 for me has lessened or gone the way of the dinosaur. I still want epic but I also want smoother rule sets and rulebooks you can recall largely from memory and don't have to re-read a 10 times before game night. Also components overflow that spills off the table, too many notes, Mozart, Arkham being the poster boy. A couple of years ago I was pretty annoyed by your harping on bloat but in the end I think you were largely right.

  • avatardragonstout  - re:

    Man, I'm going to have to re-read Preacher and cry as a pillar of my adolescence falls apart. Wouldn't be the first (or twentieth...)

    Michael Barnes wrote:
    Alright Andy, I've got a pile of Punisher Max. Your comics cred is on the line here.


    Okay, now I'm going to start backpedaling. Mainly just to warn that the second story ("Kitchen Irish") is by far the worst of the whole run. The third story is the best pure over-the-top action story of the run, and the back-third of the run is the very best, but I'll stand by everything except that second story; I'd even go so far as to say you can skip it without any repercussions. As for the prequel, "Punisher: Born": it has some really key info, but it does indulge in goofy Ennis-isms more than the rest of the series. I'll just spoil the (better read then summarized, but whatever) main setup of the prequel so that you can start reading the main series: Frank Castle LOVED the Vietnam War and made a deal with the devil so that he'd always have a war he could keep fighting in; in exchange, he lost his family. Sounds dumb written out like that maybe, but it's there as an undercurrent of the whole series, and it's a key part of the Ennis run that Frank is *not* doing this all for his family, he's using the death of his family as an excuse to be what he's always wanted to be. And certainly if someone's complaint about Ennis was "too macho & too violent", well, it's the fucking Punisher. It's definitely still macho and still violent.

    Michael Barnes wrote:
    Astro City is OK...some of it comes across as really maudlin to me for some reason. I did love the one with the vampire though, that was really good.


    I'm agreed on the maudlin thing; I loved it back in the day, but upon reading some newer ones I went back and found that I was wrong and it was indeed just maudlin and trite, a sensitive teenager's idea of what a "serious, personal" superhero comic should be. I have nearly the whole series of paperbacks available in my comics sale, btw, for which I'm finally shipping stuff this weekend (sorry for being such a slow-ass).

    Michael Barnes wrote:
    Mark Millar is OK, but I liked his Authority books better than Ultimates. It made more sense for those guys and gals to be total fucking assholes than the Avengers. I thought he actually improved the book over what Warren Ellis was doing with it.


    I'm not a big Ellis fan, but I liked Ellis' Authority. It remains the epitome of the "widescreen" comics movement, along with Ultimates, to my taste. Big, dumb, lots of explosions, lots of "SWEEEEET!" moments. Millar's Authority dipped its toe too much into fucking the villain up the ass with a wooden jackhammer, and having a "cool villain moment" be that he time travels to sexually molest one of the heroes in their childhood. Both of the above are completely literal.

  • avatardragonstout  - re:
    Dair wrote:
    I'll give Punisher Max a chance. I've just got a reading list a mile long and Punisher doesn't excite me like he did 20 years ago.


    I have *never* liked the Punisher. Actually, I HATED him until I read the Ennis Max run (hated Ennis's earlier non-Max run, too). The problem with the Punisher is that he is a completely one-note character. The brilliant thing about Ennis's run is that he doesn't bend the Punisher to have more range; the Punisher will never surprise you, he will do exactly what you expect him to do. But Ennis takes that lack of flexibility of the Punisher and turns it into a strength and theme of the series.

    But I'll lay off now, because I've totally overhyped it. The only thing saving me is that I'm sure y'all still have pretty low expectations for it anyway.

  • avatarShellhead

    I have the same problem with the Punisher that I have with most mainstream characters from DC and Marvel: the story needs to eventually end. Any character that has been around long enough will eventually hit long runs of mediocrity and even suckiness, and the Punisher has definitely been around that long. Or if the character is so great, allow that character to change. Not shock of the month bullshit that will soon be reversed, but real lasting change, like getting older. As it stands, too many DC and Marvel characters are stunted by their inability to change in meaningful ways. Maybe once every 20 years or so, a high-profile character will get a major story that adds something important to the character. But generally they play it safe and keep these characters stuck in place. It doesn't have to be that way. Both Dreadstar and Grimjack were extremely dynamic comics, where major aspects of the setting and characters changed, taking each series in drastic new directions.

  • avatarJonJacob

    Good point Shellhead. I'd like to see more deaths too. The Punisher is a perfect example of a character who could have had an awesome storyline and then got killed off. He's not a character built for longevity, he's a character who needs to be killed to complete his story arc properly (since he himself is such a killer).

    One of the reasons Lone Wolf and Cub is such an awesome series is the ending is so compelling, major comic publishers rarely have the balls to end a series the way it should end.

  • avatardragonstout  - re:
    Shellhead wrote:
    I have the same problem with the Punisher that I have with most mainstream characters from DC and Marvel: the story needs to eventually end. Any character that has been around long enough will eventually hit long runs of mediocrity and even suckiness, and the Punisher has definitely been around that long. Or if the character is so great, allow that character to change. Not shock of the month bullshit that will soon be reversed, but real lasting change, like getting older.


    Ennis's Punisher is a middle-aged man...

    But that's a BIG part of the POINT of Ennis's Punisher, that the character is just going to keep repeating the same thing until he dies, and that he's not going to eliminate organized crime, he's not going to have a change of heart, he is immutable and does not WANT to ever change, despite having opportunities to possibly change over the course of the run. He has constructed a strict code of fictions for himself that gives himself the excuse to continue to do what he wants to do without needing to ever feel repercussions or guilt.

    That said, it's funny that you mention it, because Ennis actually did write a CANONICAL end to his Punisher character, in "Punisher: The End". It completely fits.

  • avatarShellhead

    I followed Lone Wolf & Cub for the first 30 issues. The American reprint version from First Comics. Then I fell on hard times for a couple years, and cut back heavily on comics, and that First run didn't last much longer anyway. Apparently the later small-format trade reprints by Dark Horse actually completed the whole series, so I should track those down.

  • avatardragonstout  - re:
    Shellhead wrote:
    I followed Lone Wolf & Cub for the first 30 issues. The American reprint version from First Comics. Then I fell on hard times for a couple years, and cut back heavily on comics, and that First run didn't last much longer anyway. Apparently the later small-format trade reprints by Dark Horse actually completed the whole series, so I should track those down.


    *cough cough check out dragonstout's COMICS EMPORIUM*

  • avatarMichael Barnes

    In terms of characters changing, I read this thing about Alex Garland writing the Judge Dredd screenplay...he mentions that if you really look at the stuff that Wagner was doing with the character, he does actually change. But it's at this glacially slow pace. But it's not like a big MARVEL EVENT kind of thing, that ultimately gets undone by another MARVEL EVENT a couple of years later.

    One of the neat things about Blackest Night, which is too long, convoluted, and full of nonsense as a whole is that it sort of gets into what death means among superheroes, and how it's kind of fucked up with all the resurrectin' and such going on.

    I started reading PunMax...five issues in, it's fairly compelling. I still do not like Ennis' "I've watched Goodfellas and therefore understand how the mob works and how wiseguys talk" crap, it cheapens the entire book. As does the gore. But I'm liking this take on the character, for reasons that Andy enumerated up there. This is a character that has painted himself into a corner and can't do anything other than what he's always done, even if it means lying to himself about it. I'd be willing to bet that Raging Bull was a big influence on Ennis in this one.

    So Andy is off the hook, somewhat. Still a long, long run to go though before he's clear.

    I do agree that Millar went a little over the bounds on some of the stuff in Authority...but I think he was a better fit for a superhero team that takes no shit and will fuck you up than Ellis was. I forgot about that time travel thing, that was so crazy. It's also pretty ironic that he has the Authority fight bootleg versions of pretty much the entire Marvel Universe...and would later be cashing their paychecks.

  • avatarMattDP

    I couldn’t help but to go compile my own list after I read this. And there’s more similarity than I thought: I was being mislead by confusion over stuff published in 2010 and reprints of older games that I encountered for the first time this decade.

    Turns out we agree on four games: Imperial, Chaos in the Old World, Nexus Ops, and BSG.

    My other six would probably be Twilight Struggle, Through the Ages, Conflict of Heroes, Battle Line, Memoir ’44 and Hammer of the Scots.

  • avatardragonstout  - re:
    Michael Barnes wrote:
    So Andy is off the hook, somewhat. Still a long, long run to go though before he's clear.


    Thankfully, it just keeps improving, as long as you skip the Kitchen Irish story, so I'm feeling pretty okay. And speaking of influences of movies on Ennis's Punisher Max run: another great movie that I feel shares similarities, in a different direction, is Point Blank. That character's cold badassness and expertise at dealing with his own world and his simple ethical code, falling apart as he starts going further and further up the chain of responsibility, realizing that he's not battling street-level thugs but corporate America and is lost: that's evident in Punisher Max as well.

    Michael Barnes wrote:
    I do agree that Millar went a little over the bounds on some of the stuff in Authority...but I think he was a better fit for a superhero team that takes no shit and will fuck you up than Ellis was.


    I mean, to be honest, my calling out those over-the-top things is ridiculous, 'cause that's what the Authority is *all about*, and it's certainly never intended for kids. It was that the SEXUAL violence and rape seemed intended to generate a response of "whoa, awesome!" In The Ultimates, doesn't he have the Hulk ass-rape someone too?

    But then, I love the Johnny Ryan comic with the Rape-Bot in it played for laughs (admittedly, also for horror), so I'm just a big hypocrite.

  • avatardragonstout

    Also, I'd say that most of the well-remembered, great runs in mainstream comics *do* have change over the course of the run and *do* have an end. Morrison's Doom Patrol very much has an ending, and the characters definitely go through changes over the course of the story. Daredevil could've easily ended at the end of Bendis's run and it would've been a fine ending for the character, and he also goes through huge changes over the course of that run. Moore's Swamp Thing definitely had an ending, and definitely went through big changes. I'm not a big fan of Astonishing X-Men, but Whedon definitely has Kitty go through an arc and there is definitely a satisfying ending.

    I guess you could argue that the sad thing is that after these satisfying endings, the big corporations don't just let it ACTUALLY end and always hire someone else to continue, but the truth is that I don't really care because if I just don't read the Doom Patrol comics that came after Morrison, I've got my satisfying ending. The mistake is in expecting the entire Daredevil *series* to have an ending or genuine character change. The individual writers/artists just do what they can within their run.

  • avatarmetalface13

    Ugh, Ennis, Ellis and Millar. My three least favorite comics authors.

  • avatarStan Leer

    My unasked for best comics writers I have read in the past five years would be:

    Brubaker- Crimnal is fantastic
    Aaron- loved scalped
    Hill- I enjoy Locke and key if for no other reason than how things seem to get continually worse for the Lockes and the villains remains one step ahead of the here's
    Kirkman- walking dead got old. The first omnibus was enough for me. invincible though is always just pure light hearted enjoyment for me to read

    I'm a cheap bastard but I have a hard time shelling out the change for comics ese these days. Nothing I have read has really sparked my attention. I really like irredeemable for the first two thirds. I'm glad it wrapped up. Incorruptible seemed very mediocre in comparison. I read it out of obligation having bought the entire series when it was on sale.

    Not sure how I can justify to myself following new comics series at 3 bucks an issue. I have been reading saga and while I like the art, I find the story wanting. Vaugh I have only liked in the aforementioned (in this thread) ex machina.

    Anyone else red Planetoid? Finding drawn to it. Anyone read X Isle? I read the free intro copy and thought it had promise.

  • avatarJeff White

    I only really agree with Nexus Ops in that top ten list, but your runners-up category is a gold mine!

    Small World, Commands and Colors: Ancients, Citadels, Neuroshima Hex, Hammer of the Scots, Crusader Rex, and Manoeuvre are all top shelf games.

  • avatardragonstout

    I can't believe Prophecy made the runners up list and not Galaxy Trucker or Space Alert, when it comes to comparing Vlaada Chvatil games. I feel like Talisman is superior, I could imagine someone (*cough Frank Branham*) liking Prophecy more, but I can't imagine ever feeling a need for both.

  • avatarSuperflyTNT

    I guess I'm in good company, because I sold Talisman the day after my second play of Prophecy.

  • avatardragonstout

    Look, like I said, I can totally understand someone preferring Prophecy, just not BOTH. They're in WAY too close a space.

    Jeff White brings up all the gems in the runners-up list...but I think what this latest list made me realize is that all of my VERY favorite games are from the 70s, 80s, and 90s. I was surprised by the list, just like Matt Thrower was, but like him, I also found that upon more reflection on what games came out 2000-2009, I was less surprised. I think MORE good games came out that decade than any other decade. But more BEST-EVER games came out in the 80s, or in the 90s. Put another way, I bet Michael's runners-up list for the 80s would be shorter and less impressive than the runners-up list for the 00s, but I think the top 10 list itself for the 80s was much better than that for the 00s. Similar goes for the 90s: his top 5 of the 90s is better than his top 5 for the 00s (and better than the top 5 for any of the other decades, even, I'd reckon). There were fewer games back then, but perhaps even BECAUSE of that, they were higher quality. Fewer likes, more loves.

  • avatarMichael Barnes

    I think that's exactly right Andy- the VOLUME of good games has gone up dramatically in the past decade, but the BEST EVERs are all almost from past decades. Some of this does have to do with innovation in design, of course, but also I think we've had more time to winnow out the wheat from the chaff. Yes, the runners-up for past decades are shorter and less close to making the cut...in fact, I could probably extend that informal list of 00-09 runners up and make a full list of at least 20 games that deserve mention.

    But what I think really makes the difference is that designs today are far more studied and built on past successes. In the 1970s and 1980s in particular, you had designers really just kind of winging it or building off of wargame/tabletop/RPG/family game concepts and trying to do something different. Sometimes, you got Cosmic Encounter or Magic Realm. Other times, you got any number of games from those eras that aren't talked about or played nearly as much anymore.

    A design like Chaos in the Old World is highly syncretic- it's very measured, academic, and carefully constructed. That's really kind of the design style of the past decade, when you get down to it. Some of that has to do with money, particularly with a company like FFG more or less dominating the era. As far back as Game of Thrones or even early editions of Twilight Imperium, those were also very measured and "well-read" games. Constrast that to something like Borderlands or Wiz-War where the designers were really just kind of making their own thing, with really very little financial risk.

    It's very analogous to the AAA video game market, in some ways.

    Prophecy is another game that's very studied, academic, and it's almost an "answer" to Talisman. It's a smart design in its own right with some unique features, but it's clear that the designer played Talisman and similar games and is embellishing the formula. THat's in contrast to Talisman itself, which was much more of a singular, risky design even though it was built somewhat on the concept of roll-and-move games and Dungeon!.

    I can't see putting Hammer of the Scots and Crusader Rex on the same list...Columbia's games are so, so similar. I like Hammer just slightly better and it's the one I'd list, but they've really been doing the same thing since the 1970s. It's a good thing, but best of decade? Nah.

  • avatardragonstout

    I don't know that the difference is really about winnowing the wheat from the chaff...that would imply that there exist 00s games that are as great as the greatest 80s games, but we just can't tell yet, which I don't think is the case.

    Talking about the measured, academic approach...it got me thinking about how I've recently come to really, really appreciate good *development* and playtesting work in games, the incredible importance of getting the details right after you've got the initial design ideas. Development of American games has improved in leaps and bounds since the 90s (I think the German companies of the 90s actually had insanely good development), though, and my two all-time favorite games had piss-poor development upon inception: Cosmic Encounter and Magic. Beyond the basic rules structure, the impression I get of their development of new cards, aliens, moons, etc., is "whatever someone thought was cool". But they worked GREAT nonetheless! And I think the reason those games survived a whole lot of sloppiness is that the core design was VERY simple and resilient and built to withstand (and even welcome) messiness. The problem I see today is that with, say, a lot of FFG's designs (Middle Earth Quest being the most blatant in my experience), the core design is, as you said, very studied, academic, and carefully constructed: but this approach to design requires that the development also be very very careful, and when that falls through you just end up with a pile of shit: one minor detail can send things awry.

    Another interesting thing about this decade, though it's just another way of saying "a lot of very good games came out this decade, fewer all-time great games", is that I could *very* easily imagine some very smart gamers on BGG making a top 10 of the 00s list that would have *zero* overlap with Barnes' list. There are fewer games that *everyone* agrees on, and that's not quite as true with earlier decades (though maybe a lot of die-hard Eurogamers wouldn't even play *any* games from the 80s).

    I'm not at all lamenting the current state of gaming or anything ridiculous like that; I just actually thought that 2000-2009 was *clearly* the best decade for games, until I saw this list, felt "meh" on some of the games, thought about what would make my own list, and realized my own list would be more "meh" than an 80s or 90s list.

  • avatarMichael Barnes

    Oh yeah, I think in past decades you definitely get WAY more seat-of-the-pants, barely developed design. Like you said, the impetus was more "we thought this would be cool" instead of "we playtested this for five years". But it's a shot in the dark. You get these amazing, ramshackle designs that are practically held together by a wish and a Xeroxed set of rules...but then you get the games that are just train wrecks too. This is one of the reasons the 1990s were sort of a split decade, because you had the last remants of that American hobby thing going on, where you had the seat-of-the-pants designs, but the German stuff was coming over and as you pointed out their development was IMPECCABLE. That was part of the appeal of German games, at least for me. They were so god damned professional, incredibly tight, and worked like a machine with no ambiguity. That can go wrong, as we saw in the early part of the 21st century with the rise of the post-Princes of Florence Eurogame, but at the time I thought it was really appealing to play games that were so meticulously developed.

    I agree that these more academic, studied designs actually require more post-design work and development to function, and MEQ is as good an example as any. Starcraft would be another, as would Mansions of Madness. Those are not games a couple of guys slapped together and published in a tiny print run handled by a 1986 hobby company. Without hours and hours of planning, editing, tweaking, analysis, and testing those games would be an absolute disaster. And they STILL ship with errors, problems, and inconsistencies.

    So it's an interesting train of thought...that game design has become more focused on development and really a kind of post-design quality control over synthesized elements than on initial concepts, innovation, and that kind of hot-blooded enthusiam and passion that drove some of the pioneers.

  • avatardragonstout

    I think my point got muddled in my wordiness; more concisely, it was more that current more intricate game designs DEMAND better development, and older more stripped-down designs ALLOWED development to be slipshod, and while development has gotten MUCH better, it has not caught up to the point where it's perfect enough for what the clockwork game designs require, so a flaw like the incredibly fucked-up secret missions in Middle-Earth Quest makes the game break down (to me at least) whereas ridiculously overpowered stuff like the Witch or Judge in Cosmic Encounter *don't*.

  • avatarusrlocal  - Echo & The Bunnymen

    Big Bunnymen fan since way back since 'Porcupine' over here. If you haven't checked out 'Flowers' (2001) you're missing out on their best album. I too had forgotten about them for a while, but then grabbed 'Flowers' on eMusic a while back. Absolutely blew me away. Still does.

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