http://fortressat.com/ Tue, 18 Jun 2013 03:37:12 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77714 If you always carry Epic Duels and Dungeonquest with you, you will never, ever, ever be left with a situation where there's nothing fun to play. It's rare that someone won't play one of those two if given the chance, especially the former. SuperflyTNT Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:40:15 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77705 This relates tangentially to an article I've been kicking around, which relates to maximizing gaming time. I find that lately I've ended up getting to game nights and there isn't anything getting played that interests me. It's really bad when you're doing time in baby jail, because that time is really precious. It almost always results in playing things you weren't THAT interested in. Case in point, the other night I learned Medici. Now I did like it, but it would not have been my first choice. Course, I also got to play Thunderstone, which is a current obsession I have. As for the original post, I think that it just depends. If it's a small group, and someone shows up late, that's fine. I say we reboot that and get started on something else. But at a big ol game night where there are a ton of different things getting played? You can probably wait around a little for something to open up in that case. Also, I'm going to go ahead and stump for big game nights. You sometimes get riff-raff, but it's the best way to make new friends and learn new games. I do usually stick with familiar people for longer games that are more group-dependent though. San Il Defanso Thu, 01 Mar 2012 22:22:05 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77704 Hey, I guess I can't disagree with Adam West...I mean, that's a man who knows assholes. SuperflyTNT Thu, 01 Mar 2012 21:56:05 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77702 MattDP's example: not assholes. edulis' example: huge assholes. bfkiller Thu, 01 Mar 2012 21:20:17 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77699 More of a rant here, but the other day my wife agreed to watch the kids so I could go play a pimped version of Circus Imperium, with miniatures and a table sized board, at the local game store. I have not played this since middle-school and was excited. I also do not get out much and typically have game night at my house late at night after bedtime. So getting to go out while the kids were still awake was a treat, I made sure of the start time and showed up 5 minutes early and the bastards were already playing and had been playing for over an hour. Damn straight I wanted a re-boot. But those smelly, mountain dew-rotten teeth boys would not start over. Happily another guy also shown up to play, so the two of us got in a game of Warmachine. edulis Thu, 01 Mar 2012 20:24:45 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77698 The question was if 20 minutes into a 2-3 hour more-than-two player game, if a newbie or whatnot shows up and wants to play would you restart. This has become a bit of a "how much more gregarious than you am I" match. The question was, if some guy shows up 20 minutes after the game begins, would you reboot? The answer is YES, unless the newbie is being an ass. I know it'll take 20 extra minutes to reset and whatnot, but the whole thing is that it's supposed to be a social experience, and virtually ALL games are better with more players. So everyone wins. Would I change games or alter things to accomodate the newbie, a la Chappy's situation? Hell no. But if there's room for more, and you're 20 minutes into a 2-3 hour game, and the guy isn't a cunt, if you don't reset, you're kind of a dick. Don't be ashamed, embrace your dickheadedness. Just know that you're being a dick. SuperflyTNT Thu, 01 Mar 2012 19:51:34 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77697 [quote=Michael Barnes][i]don't go to game nights.[/i] I don't. I go to see friends and we play games.[/quote] I mostly just go to drinking nights and sometimes accidentally find myself playing a game. MattLoter Thu, 01 Mar 2012 19:49:42 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77696 I am currently in your position with the baby jail thing and find that when I can sneak away at a moment’s notice I'll end up in the same situation. Like you, I really don't mind them not restarting a game for my benefit; I find that I more often than not become the spectator. Not much I can do about it other than convincing the bride that hosting a game night once a month is a good idea. I think that Chapel basically sums up how I felt prior to the baby, which is why, when late for a session, never ask for a reset, and take a serious think through to someone mentioning a re-set. There is definitely a process that takes place when deciding on a game, setting up, and refresh of the rules, and if you miss all or most of those, it's probably better to sit back and spectate till the next game. Fallen Thu, 01 Mar 2012 19:34:08 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77695 [quote=Ken B.]Chappy's got a point...and I think he's talking about that one "habitually late guy" too. We all know that guy. We also know there are times when he says he's coming but never shows at all. So you can't wait forever to set something up. Also, I think some of us are talking like general "go to the shop, get some pickup games" type deals, and some of us are talking about going to groups where we know everyone and are friends. Of course I would restart pretty much any game to include my friends--because they're my friends. If I'm at a shop though, the whole game setup went like Chappy says, and then someone I don't know wants to butt in because he came in late? Yeah...I don't know either. [/quote] Actually, I only game with friends, and which is why the scenario like that above "rarely" happens in our circle, because most of our friends know that if they are going to be late, they'll probably just call it a night and come another time. Unless they just want to hang out. If I have any desire to play a game on "game night" that if I can't make it there at a reasonable time, I'll just skip it. These are all friends of mine, and we all socialize on different days other than "game night". Movies, bars, disc golf, dinner. Lots of opportunity to see them and not disrupt the limited time we have to play games. I can't even remember the last time I gamed at a store, or in a meetup. Screw those mouth breathers. Never know what you'll get. Chapel Thu, 01 Mar 2012 19:30:51 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77694 Chappy's got a point...and I think he's talking about that one "habitually late guy" too. We all know that guy. We also know there are times when he says he's coming but never shows at all. So you can't wait forever to set something up. Also, I think some of us are talking like general "go to the shop, get some pickup games" type deals, and some of us are talking about going to groups where we know everyone and are friends. Of course I would restart pretty much any game to include my friends--because they're my friends. If I'm at a shop though, the whole game setup went like Chappy says, and then someone I don't know wants to butt in because he came in late? Yeah...I don't know either. Part of "People are more important than games" also includes people not being a dick and ruining the games for everyone else. Ken B. Thu, 01 Mar 2012 19:20:02 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77693 Here's the mechanics of game night, with the inclusion of "that guy" who showed up a half hour after we started. 1. We all gather round. Shoot the shit for about 20 minutes. What movies are good, how works sucks. Some people will be finishing up dinner that they brought. Shoot the shit again. 2. Then at some point someone will state; Hey, let's start playing a game. How many do we have? Looks like X here, Y here, and we have 4 people. Cool. Then we stare at the shelves looking for a game that works best with 4, might be old, might be new. Then we go through about 10 minutes of the veto phase. Nah, played that a few months ago. No way, I hate worker placement. Nope, only works with 3...Then finally, FINALLY, we find a the perfect 4 player game that everyone is willing to play, EXCITED to play. 3. Rules refresher. There is always one or two people that say. I've played this years ago OR new to me but it looks fun. No worries. Then I spend the next 15 minutes or so explaining the rules, maybe more. Of course with all the jokes about this and wandering minds who didn't quite get rule #2.3.1...SO I repeat the rules again. Great now everyone is properly trained and primed. 4. The board with 4. Yes, a lot of games have a setup optimal for the # of players. So we spend the next 5-10 minutes setting up the board to match that exact # of people, then every unused part heads back into the box. 5. We can FINALLY start playing. YAY! We get through the first couple rounds. It's slow because there is always those questions about are we playing X right, and oh I messed that rule up can we back track. No worries, mate, we can do that. But at some point in the game we are really starting to gel, and get a nice rhythm. 6. Then comes "that guy".... Hey Bro's, sorry I'm late, was lingering around at work. Hey, what are you guys playing? Ohhhh, that looks way cool. Can you reset it for me, and refresh the rules again?... Which we'll get one of two scenarios. Oh it only plays with 4, can you pack it up and lets play something else?(Really? I was enjoying playing this one) OR it'll play with five, but now we have to reset it up, and refresh the rules, again and repeat 3-5... Uh, no. You can still hang and shoot the shit, drink some beer, comment on what you see, and pick up the next game if there is one. But no. Not resetting. If you find that your game night is much easier than I'm stating, then it doesn't matter, because you are probably playing crap like Apples to Apples anyway. Chapel Thu, 01 Mar 2012 19:01:41 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77692 During game nights when we are waiting for people, especially people in baby prison, we play shorter games till that person shows up....if you were two or three hours late with no text or phone call....well your loss if we are an hour into the game after waiting an hour. However, if you are letting us know you still plan on coming and should be there soon, we can wait. Now, if someone is notoriously late, with a bag of food and a discussion about how they just finished watching a film so they were three hours late...for several months in a row with no texts or calls...in other words they showed up when they felt like it, then I am not starting the game over. johnnyspys Thu, 01 Mar 2012 18:47:33 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77691 [i]"Jeff, get out of that chair and find something to do. Matt take Jeff's spot, you're playing red."[/i] Matt's happy, you're happy, problem solved. If you're showing up late bring something to do. Read the rules on a game you haven't played or bring a book or something. If someone shows up late and you're already into something, find a way to break someone loose or end the game on the next time around the table. My group starts at 5pm but I'm never there before 7. They are very good about calling me to find out my ETA before they start the next game, and I always let them know when I'm leaving the house to give them a 30 minute head start on when I'll arrive. I've arrived to find my first two moves taken for me in my absence. Make it work. S. Sagrilarus Thu, 01 Mar 2012 18:25:25 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77690 It all depends on how well I know the other gamers and how well I knew the person looking to join. In my game group that meets at a buddy's house, we end games early or reboot all the time. One of the dudes has late classes and shows up about a half hour to hour late which isn't a big deal and we accommodate him. At a gamestore I'd have to play it by ear. I don't do public game nights that often so I don't know the people there. I consider myself a guest in any game that I do sit in on, so I don't feel I'm in a position to demand one way or the other if the game gets rebooted or not. Either way I wouldn't care that much. But there is a point of no return where the narrative we tout all the time starts to take shape, if that narrative is good I want to see the resolution. VonTush Thu, 01 Mar 2012 18:23:04 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77689 I'll always do a reboot, unless the current game will wrap up in less than half an hour. No exceptions. And the routine here is that if someone sits out to watch while a game wraps up, that person gets a free beer. That's a bit of a cop out at my house because there's always an open 2-4 on hand. But at the boardgame cafe, we'll outright buy the person a beer/cooler on our tab, even if we don't know the person yet. Fuck, boardgames are a social activity that are back seat to conversation, meeting people and chilling. This is also why player elimination games can be good. In those games, there's usually a few guys on Rock Band willing to pull out a quick game while the group finishes up. SaMoKo Thu, 01 Mar 2012 18:20:20 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77688 Of course you would. I would too. But the point is that if the group just refuses to accomodate someone because they're 20 minutes into their OMG SO IMPORTANT fucking board game, then it's a group of assholes. There's a big difference between "no, you guys go ahead, that's cool" and "I'm sorry, you're late. Tough shit." Michael Barnes Thu, 01 Mar 2012 18:14:08 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77687 If I showed up an hour late to a game night and the group was already heavily into a game, I wouldn't let them restart. As Matt pointed out, sometimes it can actually be fun to watch and learn a game while just hanging out and bullshitting with people. If it's all about being with your friends anyway, what difference does it make whether you're playing or not? I'd appreciate it if the group offered to reboot, and I'd offer to reboot if I was on the other side, but I'd insist that the group keep playing the game. clockwirk Thu, 01 Mar 2012 18:03:49 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77686 Of course there's exceptions, and there are situations- like setting up a TI3 game and playing it- where restarting would botch the night for everybody. But hey, guess what? Don't start a game of TI3 when you're waiting on someone else to show up. [i]don't go to game nights.[/i] I don't. I go to see friends and we play games. Michael Barnes Thu, 01 Mar 2012 18:02:14 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77684 People are more important than games. Would I restart a Twilight Imperium game after we were an hour in, though? No. But if I'm playing something that ends in like 90 minutes or less? Like Barnes says, each and every game session is not some blessed, sacred event that must be preserved at all costs. Of course, if people say "I'll be there at noon" but show up at 2 and expect to be accommodated, that's different too, especially if they make a habit of it. Ken B. Thu, 01 Mar 2012 17:26:06 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77683 I'm also going to be an opposing view to Barnes. The only time we restart a game is if a major rule was missed, or something similar. But then again, I usually only play meatier games, and I'm not getting into a 4-5 hour game and try to shift gears a 1/2 hour into it. Scheduling is very important when trying to get in those kind of games to fit in a night. Would I mind restarting some puff piece like Ticket to Ride or Dominion? Probably not. But for main event games, the set has already begun. Chapel Thu, 01 Mar 2012 17:18:28 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77682 Am I an asshole for not restarting for someone? Probably, but so be it. I can live with that. When I get together with friends we play a short game if someone else is coming, so they don't have to wait. If a friend came unexpectedly and we weren't close to finishing, we would restart. I don't think I'm an asshole for not restarting at a game night. I got stuck by two trains and was about 20 minutes late to a game night two weeks ago. I watched and learned a little of A Few Acres of Snow and waited for another game to start. No big deal. I can wait patiently and still enjoy myself and it sounds like Matt has the same philosophy. If you can't handle that happening, don't go to game nights. My time is just as important as anyone else's. I have kids and a wife that I will usually see after the game night, so anyone who thinks I should auto-restart can fuck off. Dair Thu, 01 Mar 2012 17:13:19 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77681 Repo, of course you don't go in EXPECTING to be accomodated, that's rude too. But the point is that no game is so IMPORTANT to finish that you can't make sure that your mates haven't wasted their time in coming to an event or get-together. I agree, the guy that comes in and insists on games being cut short or whatever is an ass too. You find the medium path that suits everybody. And some folks don't mind sitting around for 30 minutes waiting for something to finish- I usually don't, because I'm honestly more often interested in bullshitting and hanging out than playing a game anyway. Jon Jacob is right on the money...these are also reasons why I no longer game in public or with strangers. We've had MANY a game night that turns into Rock Band night, video game night, or just rappin' about movies or something. Can't get away with that in a room full of unfamiliar nerds. Michael Barnes Thu, 01 Mar 2012 17:01:47 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77680 I don't go to game stores anymore and only play with friends. I know I would have no problem re-starting personally but this is a room full of nerds all excited to play a game that maybe they barely have time for as it is. I wouldn't hold it against them for not re-starting but it's not the choice I'd make. But I avoid going to game stores and shit like that because I can't the fun I want from an evening of gaming in those situations. With friends we would re-start and quite often don't even finish games we are playing. As a group we just don't care. I've shown up to game night at my brothers place before and then not played anything at all because we end up just shooting the shit for a couple hours and then we're out of time. Lifes too short and games are meaningless so I'll gladly skip gaming all together if the evening pans out that way. I'm a little too sensitive of others feelings sometimes so if someone seems unhappy I'll do whatever I can to fix that. Re-starting, not playing at all, playing something simpler.. I really don't care. But when your not with friends it's all different, which is why I avoid those situations. I don't feel comfortable being myself and I hate faking it. JonJacob Thu, 01 Mar 2012 16:47:59 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77679 Depends on the game and the person for me but usually I'll restart or move to something else. If it's someone I'm friends with, always restart or start something else. Only real exceptions to this is games that are either going to end in like 10 mins anyway or if there is another table of good people close to finishing that said latecomer can get on with in a few minutes without us. MattLoter Thu, 01 Mar 2012 16:32:56 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77678 I'm afraid I take the opposing view from Mr. Barnes. If I show up late to a game event, I go in with the understanding that I may be "out of synch" with the people who were there earlier. I know I may have to wait for them to finish whatever it is they are playing. I certainly NEVER expect them to ditch their game and make room for me right away. In fact, if it were suggested, I would insist that they not. I would feel that I was imposing and that it is only polite to wait. I don' think those engaged in a game would be assholes in any way to want to finish what they started. The only exception would be if it's an established game event. Say the monthly meeting of the game club and somebody brand new shows up. In the interests of expanding the club, all efforts should be made to make them feel welcome and include them. repoman Thu, 01 Mar 2012 15:43:35 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77676 This is the kind of crap that pisses me off about gamers. They act like playing a game is SO FUCKING IMPORTANT that when something happens like this, they side with the game instead of with friends or other players. I absolutely 100% without hesitation will restart or scrap a game when we've got people coming in late. We do it all the time, and none of my people care. We've ended games an hour deep because friends came in late. We shouldn't have played a two hour game when people were showing up in an hour. Making it out to game night is a PAIN IN THE ASS. I know, because I'm in baby jail all the time myself and my gaming time is precious. I respect that when people come out to game night, their time is precious too and if I'm going to say "sorry, we're 20 minutes into the game" to someone that came in late, then that makes me a ASSHOLE. It _is_ rude that these people wasted your time. Even if you're casual acquaintances, they're basically telling you "tough shit" for getting there late...to a completely non-mandatory, unimportant social event. So they wasted _your_ time. Seriously, was there no one there that said "hey, I'll play something with you"? I mean, if I see someone without anything to do at a game night, I'll drop out of something to make sure everybody gets to participate. What's wrong with these people? Michael Barnes Thu, 01 Mar 2012 15:32:39 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77675 I would absolutely reboot. Gaming is a group sport and the more the better. SuperflyTNT Thu, 01 Mar 2012 15:11:13 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3127#josc77672 I like to think I would reboot (and I definitely would for a friend), but if it were just someone I know a little from a previous game night, I probably wouldn't reboot. I'm an asshole that way. Unless it looked like I was losing, then I would demand we reboot ;) Dair Thu, 01 Mar 2012 13:56:48 +0100