http://fortressat.com/ Tue, 21 May 2013 15:49:54 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc9269 Update for anyone that gives a shit.... I learned of cube drafting, which sounds like the ideal MTG format once you get a varied and balanced cube. Google cube drafting. You can get a nice cube built for less than $50, which is about the same cost as a board game these days. Problem is, you still need to get people hooked back into magic to get them to want to draft. I followed Dragonstout's advice on the "house of commons" articles and bought a set of Shards of Alara commons on ebay for $3.50. I spent another $5 on basic lands (which I will need for the cube anyway). So for around $12 shipping, I am going to have 10 shards of alara decks. I am going to have a little fun tweaking them for balance and making them playable against each other, then use them as filler games. Once I've got a few people hooked into magic again, I drop the cube on them and see if I can get anyone interested in doing a couple hours cube draft. I'm not real hopeful the local eurogamers will get into it, but there is a local magic scene I might be able to recruit cube ddrafters from too. its been fun and full of nostalgia. My wife even gave me the "I remember those" when she saw the cardbacks. hancock.tom Sat, 07 Feb 2009 10:52:34 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc9151 [url]http://www.wholesalegaming.com/hecatomb/[/url] You can get booster boxes of Hectatomb for $10 or all three boosters for $27. A starter box is also $10 They also have Dreamblade booster cases for $25. bobby_5150 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 00:25:43 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc9104 Don't forget about Warlord (Saga of the Storm) if you are looking at CCGs that have switched to a non-collectible format! After AEG decided to shut it down, some long time fans started up a company to obtain the license similar to what happened with Shadowfist (except Warlord seems to be a bit healthier, with regular expansions scheduled). The 4th edition of the game is now sold in fixed double starters only (6 different double starters in the base set, 3 in each expansion). It has been designed so that if you purchase all the starters in a set, you will have 3 of each common, 2 of each uncommon, and 1 of each rare card for that set. It also means that each faction's starters are completely playable out of the box, and reasonably well balanced against the other starters with no deckbuilding required (of course you can improve the decks by customizing them). The gameplay is more balanced than it has in a long time (ever?), the design choices are solid, and the artwork is about the best I have seen in a CCG. OK off the soapbox, but it is probably my favorite CCG of all time (ok, in the top four) and I really do appreciate the fact that they have done away with the random boosters. On a more general note, I might be addicted to collecting dead CCGs. I enjoy building a bunch of reasonably balanced decks for our group to try out, or providing the card pool for us to draft from. Oh, my CCG credentials: MtG (just until The Dark) - sold off for big profits Jyhad - bought 20 booster boxes of the base set for $5 each when they were being clearanced, plus various boosters/starters from other sets. Shadowfist - booster box or more from most sets VS. - several thousand cards from eBay lots (Marvel only) Doomtown - 6000 or so cards, still missing a couple of rares 7th Sea - approx. 5000 cards MeTW - completed a set of the base game Netrunner - one box of the starters (8 starters I believe), plus a handful of other cards City of Heroes- a box of battlepacks and a box of boosters from the base set and expansion CoC - Booster box of each set from the FFG sale, plus premium and regular starters and 1 of each asylum pack and the core set GoT - just the LCG core set (I'll be picking up any asylum packs that are part of the LCG release) Warlord - 1000's of cards from all sets WH40K - most of the cards from the 1st edition (the one with Nids) Warcry (WH Fantasy) - almost all cards from all the sets (missing a rare here and there) Wars - two boxes of the base set boosters, 1 of the expansion I may have a small problem. Almalik Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:20:49 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8962 I started playing Magic when some friends of mine came back from the Gencon where it was introduced (1992?) and the Unlimited set came out. I remember wandering around the Metro Detroit area looking for these damn cards. We played for about 2 years straight up until they boned us on Legends. Then we played Jihad for a bit but I never really got into and I ended up pitching those cards. Then I found a collectible World War II and Modern Ground War game. Sadly, never got to play that and pitched the cards. Then about 10 years ago, when I started at my current company, some folks were playing Magic in the lunchroom and I got into it again. I do like the game but I don't like spending the gobs of cash for it. I also have an assload of the Star Wars cards. (the first 2 sets...) mikoyan Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:30:47 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8937 Dragonstout, thats an interesting idea and if it can be done for $12 or less as you claim, its a damn good deal. BUT, as you say, it doesn't scratch the deckbuilding itch. Barnes has an article up on the Cthulhu LCG, we'll see if that does it for me as far as deckbuilding goes. hancock.tom Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:41:01 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8929 Yeah, actually, if you just want to play with a whole bunch of fixed decks and want to spend barely ANYTHING, and deckbuilding bores you: 1) Buy a complete playset (i.e. 4 of each) of commons on eBay for either Lorwyn, Shadowmoor, or Shards of Alara. 2) Build http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/cm105 if it's Lorwyn you bought, http://www.wizards.com/magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/cm131 if it's Shadowmoor, and http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ftl/10 if it's Shards of Alara. You now have THIRTEEN roughly balanced, varied decks, at a cost of... $12-15, including shipping. (+ a few dollars more if you don't have a ton of lands sitting around the house; might be more expensive now, this is just how much it cost me when I did it a year ago) That's pretty much the best card game deal ever, collectible or not, living or dead CCG. Anyone who's never played Magic, or who wants a set of decks to play a la Blue Moon, should definitely spend the $15. dragonstout Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:47:11 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8925 You know the HeroCard games (I've only played Orc Wars though) have a pretty good CCG feel to them, as it's basically a card driven board game. Each player has a deck for their character that they use to combat each other. Deckbuilding is minimal though. The rules say you can mix around the character decks to create your own deck, but it would kind of lose its theme. What kind of character would have orc cards, paladin cards, ranger cards and fairy magic cards? metalface13 Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:30:16 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8922 Tom, I saw that too. I've ordered several items from Overstock in the past with no problems. I have a feeling that they'll eventually straighten this mistake out and refund your money though. Nick Warcholak Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:59:35 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8920 Has anyone else noticed that Overstock has the Cthulhu LCG at 75% off? It MSRPs for around $40, and overstock has it for $10. I though it was a price mistake and they would back out or cancel my order, but strangely enough I saw today that they charged my credit card, which makes me think perhaps I'm wrong that it is a mistake. They DID change the release date from 1/29/09 to 2/29/09, but that doesn't surprise me as very few online retailers have the game yet. Anyone heard anything about this? Anyone been screwed by overstock before? hancock.tom Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:21:40 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8919 [quote]eeking out cards and building decks is like a more calculating, less paint on your jeans version of creating army lists in a miniatures game or, alternatively, a less creative, less time demanding version of creating an RPG campaign.[/quote] It also places the emphasis on each player to create something, rather than a single GM like in a RPG. If a players creation is weak then his game will be worse for it. Sam Jazzbeaux Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:48:28 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8917 The thing I have been finding with CCGs is that you need to play what your friends are playing. That is the trick of it. You need to have at least one other person into the game who has some, not necessarily a lot, of cards or minis to play against to make it worth while. I find that when you build decks to play against decks a friend has built is when CCGs are fun. Trying to build decks and balance them against each other yourself to maybe get one or two games in hasn't worked out for me. The deckbuilding is part of the game with a CCG and just isn't that much fun on your own. I have been playing quite a bit of Magic this month. The thrill has gone. I am too familiar with the game. I know how to play too well. It has just been coming down to who gets the better draws: most of which is who has the better deck. I think Magic has so sadly become an optimization efficiency game for me. Got to agree with Gaebril on 2 headed giant, it is a great format. I think I generally prefer CCGs multiplayer. I am starting to wonder if the customization aspect of CCGs isn't the addictive bit and that that isn't due to the collectible nature of the games. Seeking out cards and building decks is like a more calculating, less paint on your jeans version of creating army lists in a miniatures game or, alternatively, a less creative, less time demanding version of creating an RPG campaign. It is the same kind of strange pleasure I reckon. CCGs just seem to have made the time and accessibility factor that bit more appealing and I'd also say democratic. There will be new types of games created that let you do your homework outside of playing. Look at say Little Big Planet - not an accessible example but these things evolve and emerge. Citadel Thu, 29 Jan 2009 07:48:58 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8915 V:tes gets my vote, its a living game but one you can still buy cheap - sealed boxes of Jyhad boosters are still out there for $80, thats 36x19 cards. These are very playable, and completely tournament legal as there is no Types or set rotation. I have a regular group on Wednesday nights, and we get a steady influx of new players who can dive in and spend money, or just play with a limited supply of cards and still get the wins. Sam PS I am slightly biased! Have been keeping the BGG entry up to date, and have the second most plays on there - 351! Jazzbeaux Thu, 29 Jan 2009 05:34:40 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8914 I'm such a ccg whore... I've played a few, I've liked less, and still, I'd buy into every single one if they were just that bit cheaper. Currently I have Magic, World of Warcraft, Seed as my preferred ccg's. If I could get them at less than obscene prices, I'd buy boxes of Hecatomb, War, Vs... and probably more My personal drug is the limited scene. Having a limited card pool, and making the best of that, is for me what it is all about. It also negates the "he who has the most money, has the most power" problem of most of the public Magic scene. Recently I've looked at The Cube for Magic, and I am currently trying to convince myself that it's a really, really bad idea to buy into a single Magic Expansion and try to build a cube from that. But it seems to be having the opposite effect.. curses. NetSapiens Thu, 29 Jan 2009 02:30:03 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8913 What is great about Jyhad is the fact that you can build a competitive deck with only commons. You don't need half a deck of overprized rares and you can still have fun and kick ass. Although I have my precious Toreador/Antitribu deck with some expansive nasties. sydo Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:06:28 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8910 Magic is great. Recently they made good rules for 4-player (2v2) multiplayer Magic, called 2-Headed Giant. It works really well, although different strategies are emphasized compared to the usual 1v1 game. Shellhead has good ideas, and I'd like to point out that they can be applied to live CCGs as well. Magic has a block every year, L5R has an arc every two years; these can be considered to be self contained units. It should not be expensive at all to get sets of commons and uncommons to make a draft pool. Gaebril Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:59:03 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8903 Not to get into the same things every time CCGs come up, but ya just keep on trashing Magic... [quote]Magic is too focused on 2-player games.[/quote] So are Twilight Struggle and War of the Ring...but I don't see anyone (except maybe MattDP) complaining about that. Magic's a two-player game. That's it. Some people like to play it multiplayer, but really, it wasn't made for that, and it kinda sucks at it. [quote] The ratio of interesting cards is poor, due to the need for land cards. [/quote] Maybe, but, for one, as pointed out by SpaceGhost, there's entire decks whose sole win conditions are land...there are PLENTY of interesting lands in the history of Magic, lands that turn into creatures, lands that draw you cards, lands so good they've been banned... Second of all, Shadowfist doesn't really fix this at all. A 1-cost foundation character is the real equivalent of the boring, necessary basic land, not the feng shui sites, which are just nominally comparable to lands. [quote]The card flow is poor, sometimes leading to situations where one or both players are just spending turns drawing in hopes of getting something playable.[/quote] Diff'rent strokes, but I find that the more severe and limited card flow in Magic makes every card count so much more, which makes getting your cards killed or discarded much more dramatic and exciting. [quote]The combat system often encourages turtling, though each game tends to be mercifully short.[/quote] Having recently taught a bunch of people to play Magic who now play regularly, I find that new/inexperienced players turtle waaaaaaaaay more than they should. There's always opportunities to attack, you've just gotta look for them. [quote]The narrative is drab, because the level of play is a little too abstracted. Players represent powerful duelling wizards, but most of the action is focused on creatures and spells that affect creatures. And then are all those boring land cards, real estate that is somewhere, but generally irrelevant to play.[/quote] In terms of the cards literally telling a story, yeah, I don't see that. I do feel the theme all the time when I play, though; I can visualize what the card represents, and it usually makes sense. And much more importantly, the games themselves, like in all CCGs, tell great stories, full of ups and downs and unique situations that may never come up again. [quote]And while it is a necessary evil for a game with so many cards out there, the retirement plan for entire sets of cards makes Magic heinously expensive to keep up with even by CCG standards. [/quote] Oh HELLLLLLLLLL yeah. Unless you're playing casually with friends, in which case who cares? None of that stuff matters. - Andy "Magic ruined my future but I LOVE IT SO MUCH" Stout dragonstout Wed, 28 Jan 2009 19:19:30 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8899 If deck-building is the really crucial element of what you enjoy about CCGs, then dead games are the low-budget way to go. Two possibilities... 1. Build several decks to be about the same power level and let your friends have first choice when you play them, then routinely re-tool those decks for variety and to keep them competitive against each other. 2. If you have enough time, create a balanced pool of cards for everybody to draft from, and then have everybody design decks on the spot from the cards they have drafted. Keep those decks intact over a given period of time (an afternoon, a month, a season) and keep playing against each other with those decks, with periodic injections of new clumps of cards into the play environment and opportunities to re-tool the decks with those cards or ones previously not used in earlier drafts. Shellhead Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:31:57 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8894 Cool article Tom. Regarding the original post, I *never* had the CCG itch because the business model just drove me nuts. I remember watching friends in grad school breaking out Magic for the first time and thinking "that looks like fun." Played once and saw it was really fun...and then realized that it would eat up my money like a drug habit. MMORPGs are simply the computer version. MUDs were ugly but great fun social spaces; once something like Optima Online and WoW came along, they got pretty and ya had to pay for 'em--hourly at the time--well...in the category for things with an hourly fee, I could think of more interesting ways to spend my money. Then about a year ago, I came across about 700 Netrunner cards at a local thrift store [along with 2,000 L5R cards--but those rules are *SOOOOO* fucked for a new player starting from scratch that I gave it one shot and off to ebay they went]. Fortunately, I had a local gamer who was a netrunner junkie, so he taught me the game. Wow. Fast, relatively easy to play, and highly entertaining. It was also pretty clear that a serious deckbuilder could probably break that game into little tiny pieces. Someone on TOS put together a "how to make pseudo-random starter decks" article for NR that seemed to do a nice job for someone like me [although after *another* thrift find, a few spot-purchases, and a small trade to balance out my decks, I now have ~1,500 cards that really need to be sorted so we can build some random-ish decks that I can pass on to a bunch of friends for them to keep and just play whenever]. So that's my history with CCGs in total. I *am* however, interested in something that captures that dynamic without needing the substantial--and more importantly--damn near constant investment. Dogmatix Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:05:00 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8892 They are going to do some kind of new organized play thing with the CoC LCG...I think it's a kind of loose system, not like a DCI thing. CoC takes about 20-30 minutes a game at the most. Michael Barnes Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:01:41 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8891 Hey Mad Dog, how long does a game of the CCG take on average? hancock.tom Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:43:32 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8890 The different card backs were why I said someone starting now will be "starting at the ground floor." What I have read regarding the tournaments for CoC LCG states that cards that were in the previous CCG but not the LCG will NOT be tourney legal. hancock.tom Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:43:04 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8889 [b]They did the Thing That Should Not Be Done. The card backs are different. Opaque sleeves fix that up nicely, but still.[/b] I demand a boycott! No more purchasing FFG games. Who's with me? Mad Dog Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:37:06 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8888 [i]I bought the previous incarnation of the Call of Cthulhu LCG (Arkham and Eldritch starters plus Asylum Packs). Other than the white borders on the new cards, does anyone know if there are compatibility issues? I'm looking to sell them and it will surely be easier if they're compatible.[/i] They did the Thing That Should Not Be Done. The card backs are different. Opaque sleeves fix that up nicely, but still. The new cards are all errata'd and updated, so there is an impetus for early adopters to pick it up. Michael Barnes Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:24:14 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8887 I understand what you mean by the uselessness of the land cards. On the other hand, I think that this only is an issue depending on what type of Magic you are playing. If you are playing Type II (e.g., whatever the current block is), then the card issue really rears its ugly head; however, in Type I magic you shouldn't have any worthless cards in your deck -- with many cards that (a) can be played without mana, or (b) a strong draw engine so you can also have a handful of threats. Space Ghost Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:20:57 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8886 I'd like to know what you all think of Combat Cards: a card game of dueling warriors that started as a trading card game in Second Life in 2006 and since Christmas has existed in real life as well. It ticks a number of the boxes you mention, combining deck building with simplicity and a 10 minute play time. More information, including videos of the game in Second Life, a free print and play version and a link to the web shop can be found here: http://combatcards.co.uk a guest Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:20:57 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8885 I bought the previous incarnation of the Call of Cthulhu LCG (Arkham and Eldritch starters plus Asylum Packs). Other than the white borders on the new cards, does anyone know if there are compatibility issues? I'm looking to sell them and it will surely be easier if they're compatible. Mad Dog Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:20:07 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8884 Forgot to mention cardflow issues and new mechanics for Jyhad and Shadowfist. In Jyhad, players tend to constantly have a full hand of seven cards, replacing cards as soon as played except for certain powerful ones. There have been new mechanics introduced almost every year for Jyhad, and most have been popular with the fans. The inclusion of the Imbued (vampire hunters from Hunter: the Reckoning) was controversial, but the several new mechanics were clever and well-balanced with the overall game. In Shadowfist, cardflow requires good tactical play. You fill up your hand to full handsize at the start of each turn, but that requires some judgment calls about when to play cards and when to discard. It's very dynamic compared to Magic, but less so than Jyhad. There have been several new factions introduced over the years, but few new mechanics. Shellhead Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:14:24 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8883 [b]First, a look at the reigning champion of the CCG popularity contest: Magic: the Gathering[/b] Magic is too focused on 2-player games. The ratio of interesting cards is poor, due to the need for land cards. The card flow is poor, sometimes leading to situations where one or both players are just spending turns drawing in hopes of getting something playable. The combat system often encourages turtling, though each game tends to be mercifully short. The narrative is drab, because the level of play is a little too abstracted. Players represent powerful duelling wizards, but most of the action is focused on creatures and spells that affect creatures. And then are all those boring land cards, real estate that is somewhere, but generally irrelevant to play. And while it is a necessary evil for a game with so many cards out there, the retirement plan for entire sets of cards makes Magic heinously expensive to keep up with even by CCG standards. [b]A respected and enduring classic: Jyahd[/b] Richard Garfield designed Jyhad after learning some important lessons from his earlier game Magic: the Gathering. It's simply better than Magic in nearly every possible respect. Instead of the boring Land filler cards of M:tG, each player uses the same resource pool as life points and as currency to buy new minions and pay for certain crucial cards, forcing difficult decisions throughout the game. A small resource gain is potentially available every turn, but not for players who play too defensively. Though playable with just 2-players, Jyhad comes to life as one of the best multi-player games ever, in part due to political cards that engage every player at the table in discussions and voting. That political strategy is one of the three major strategies to win the game. Also, most of the usual multi-player game problems are missing from Jyhad, due to Garfield's clever design. You can theoretically attack any player at the table, but you only gain a victory point for ousting the player seated to your left. Thematically, Jyhad is rich with narrative. Everything you accomplish in the game is either the result of a thematic action taken by one of your minions, or the play of a "master" card indicating that you the player (representing an ancient and manipulative vampire) are getting directly involved. Actions can lead to contests of stealth versus intercept between opposing minions, and successful interception leads to combat. The combat in Jyhad is somewhat complex but highly entertaining, delivering almost cinematic detail of the action. That said, Jyhad tends to clock in at games of 2-3 hours, which is very long for the short attention spans usually attracted to CCGs. Also, player elimination is an essential element to Jyhad, sometimes leading to long waits for eliminated players. And if nobody plays a political deck, the downtime between turns can be long in the midgame. [b]A classic CCG now on life support: Shadowfist[/b] Shadowfist isn't quite dead yet, but it is currently being published by a group of fans who bought the publishing rights from Z-Man Games, who bought those same rights from Daedalus Games in 1998. It's still a very good multi-layer CCG that has entertained many former Magic players. In part, this is because Shadowfist is similar to Magic in many respects, and yet better at every turn. Like Jyhad, Shadowfist is playable with two players, but more enjoyable as a multi-player game. Here, the standard multi-player metagaming is subverted in a good way. After some initial rounds of attack, Shadowfist often ends up with players taking turns attacking or defending the weakest player at the table. More on that in a bit. The biggest difference between Shadowfist and Magic is the land. In Magic, land just sits there, in play or in your deck, being boring except when tapped as a resource. In Shadowfist, there is great variety in the land cards, with special powers or varying stats, and you fight to take them from each other to win the game. Like in Cosmic Encounter, the attacking player and the defending player can always ask for allies in a given fight. So the game often gets to a point where each player attacks the weakest opponent on his own turn, then helps the others defend that weakest opponent during the turns of the other players. This is mostly entertaining, potentially allowing everybody to participate in every turn, except that it isn't much fun being that weakest player. There are some comeback cards, but not usually not enough to move a player from the bottom to the top of the pecking order. However, nobody is eliminated unless they run out of cards, which hardly ever happens. Games tend to be 1-2 hours long, which is still long by CCG standards. Thematically, Shadowfist is a mixed bag. The early sets from Daedalus emphasized Hong Kong action movies, but Z-Man and the fan group have both drifted somewhat away from that premise. Like in Jyhad, minions take actions, but there are only a couple of types of actions, and the abstract combat is fairly similar to Magic. Shellhead Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:31 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8882 Wait, did somebody say HECATOMB? That was a really cool game, too bad it tanked. We had a pretty decent regular group of HECATOMB players at AGF (including Pseudointellectual)...I thought the game had some pretty interesting concepts and unique mechanics. It's worth playing. You know what CCG was surprisingly good? NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS. It was easy and pretty fun to play. And cheap. Michael Barnes Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:57:35 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8881 CoC is from 2004, Tom. They're just repackaging the old game into the new format just like what they're doing with AGOT. Frank- I think CoC is the better game. There are some similarities but I just liked it better. AGOT is better as a multiplayer game though. Michael Barnes Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:55:32 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8880 I think Cthulhu looks like the better LCG, but the theme of AGOT might appeal more. Plus, AGOT LCG has been out for a while, CoC is new so you are getting in at the ground floor. hancock.tom Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:45:13 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8879 Having never really played a CCG, I may go pick up one of the LCGs at lunchtime. Which should I get - Arkham or Thrones? Mr Skeletor Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:39:28 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8878 Jeb -- I just saw you pm'ed me about 5 color. I do enjoy this type of magic, but there aren't too many people that play around here. My constant gaming partner and I have been playing Type I decks for about 9 years now; they seem to slowly evolve and morph into new decks. We play probably a couple hands a week before our gaming with the regular groups, and it is amazing how changing out one or two cards can really change the flow of the game. The variability of Magic is still something that I think is enticing. Shellhead -- it is hard to compete with Magic because there are just so many cards. They also introduce new mechanics with some type of regularity; these introductions invariably have ramifications on the interactions with specific cards, rendering some combos obsolete while making others viable. On an aside, I would be curious what you think some of the improvements of other games are. Space Ghost Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:34:45 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8876 But but WAH WAH WAH CCGS FORCE YOU TO BUY MULTIPLE COPIES OF EVERY CARD!!! Legomancer Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:24:42 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8875 Magic: the Gathering is a good example of the difference between popularity and quality. Certain subsequent CCGs did various things better than Magic, but because Magic was the first, it got a hold of the core market for CCGs. Shellhead Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:21:11 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8873 I think I'm over it. I've got, oh, prolly 7000 MtG cards or so tucked away in a closet. Another 600 Mythos (great game!) cards, and I traded off my Hecatomb stuff a year ago. I bought some Call of Cthulu CCG stuff in the last FFG fire sale, so there's $10 worth of that at work in the common room. I turned most of that CCG energy to boardgames and videogames. I still have my 5-Color deck ready to go (5-Color is the AT form of Magic), and I play maybe three times a year. The luster's gone, though. jeb Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:13:46 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8869 Sweet, talk about synchronicity...my Gameshark article tomorrow is about the CALL OF CTHULHU LCG. EDADH is only barely like a CCG. It's more of an UP FRONT-style war game. Michael Barnes Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:35:47 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8868 I really like your article. For my part, you hit the sweet spot when you mentioned that CCGs allow you to play when you're not playing. I never figured it, but unconsciously, I think that deck building challenges, when working with a limited pool of possibilities, is a great past time. Now, it's great that my friends are not into them anymore, because that's a very good excuse to put my money elsewhere! And you're right, Dominion's deckbuilding is nothing compared to any CCG, even the simpler ones. Never I'll get as much satisfaction in a tight Dominion deck than years ago when I figured killer combinations in Doomtown, efficient decks in Star Wars CCG, or simply creative ways to play like no one ever did in Magic. milhouse46 Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:23:25 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8867 I find myself still wanting to play a CCG, but can no longer be bothered to dig my cards out of the attic to build a deck. Although, I do find certain CCG elements in games to be enticing. I liked the fact that Agricola had several different decks and that I could sort of customize my farmer based on the cards randomly dealt. The LCG idea is calling me all the right things. I always wondered why Magic or any other CCG just didn't sell a complete set, and I realize that doing such would almost cripple the CCG market. I would have loved to pick up a Raw Deal set that had three copies of all non-uniques and one copy of all uniques. It should be interesting with FFG because the LCG isn't its bread and butter. Million Dollar Mimring Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:20:31 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8866 I haven't played Edadh yet, but I definitely could have listed the miniatures-game masquerading as card game genre as another potential CCG itch scratcher. Edadh, battleground: fantasy warfare, and similar games probably provide some of the deckbuilding feeling without busting the wallet. hancock.tom Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:19:11 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8865 I love CCGs, or at least the several CCGs that I got hooked on. I enjoy holding a card with a neat picture, an appealing layout/design, some specific values and/or rules, and maybe a bit of flavor text. With a handful of cards, I can have fun looking for powerful combos, or maybe just combos that yield an interesting narrative. The better CCGs generally have a strong sense of narrative, and often a focus on individual characters or creatures. I hate CCGs, all of them. Deckbuilding can be tedious, and the arms race for rare cards turns my income into an important component in the game. Nobody wants to spend vast money trying a new one, and nobody wants to play a dead one for whatever reasons the game failed in the first place. I still play one CCG on a fairly regular basis. Vampire: the Eternal Struggle (which I still think of as Jyhad) is still a viable game, with 2-3 new expansions every year and a fanatical core fan base. We have at least a half dozen guys who play every Wednesday night at the local card shop, and I know three times as many guys who play rarely but still keep all their cards just in case they start playing regularly again. Shellhead Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:16:30 +0100 http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915#josc8860 Tom, have you played Edadh yet? Sag. Sagrilarus Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:00:21 +0100