Dr. Mabuse wrote:

Thanks Doc. I've read there's an option that allows for instant upgrades but the game is beginning to sound like more work than it's worth. I like the depth but my wife is definitely anti-fiddly and I want it work with her as well as my regular gaming buddies.

Definitely not more work than it's worth, IMO, but I hear what you're saying.

I'm still looking for more feedback. I deliberately left Eclipse out of the equation but it's going to be back in stock at my FLGS on Thursday.

I put Space Empires at the top of that list because I thought Eclipse too Euro-y but it's pretty popular. I read up on it and looked at all the comments and reviews last night and the more I read on it the more it looks like a blend. Some Euro gamers dismiss it as too lucky and several Ameritrash players as too dry.

I don't really care for labels except insomuch as they provide an idea of game play.

Eclipse is ok. It has faded a bit since I first got it. However, I don't think it would be very good with two, although I have never played it that way.

The least I've played has been 3 and that was ok but a little too stagnant in the fighting department. Playing with 6 is too many. Adds nothing but about an extra hour and a half near the end.

Four seems to be best.

Every time I play one of these 4x type games, I usually end up thinking that it's just better suited for PC play. Less downtime, easier to schedule around, room for a bit more depth, blah blah blah. A two player campaign of a Paradox game can be great.

Of the ones you've listed, Space Empires 4x stood out as pretty good. It's more focused on the industry, research and military engine, but I see that as a strength. It narrows in on what it's good at and doesn't try to do 'too much'. Works fine with 2, as well.

Looks like I'm the first to chime in on the side of Empires of the Void. If you're put off SE4X because of the wargame bookkeeping, Eclipse has the Euro efficiency engine problem. Empires is light, has tech upgrades, diplomacy or conquest actions, and is quite flexible in that you can pick most of the actions more than once. based on your requirements, I'd say it's a good fit.

And based on comments here, Ascending Empires also sounds a good bet for you.

Notahandle wrote:

It's not that I'm put off by it, if it was just me I'd probably go for SE4X but I want something I can also play with my wife since it's getting increasingly difficult to get others together on any kind of a regular basis.

Empires of the Void might just hit that sweet spot for her. It's light and fairly fun with an emphasis on conflict and dice rolling. Ascending Empires would probably work too....it might even be better because it replaces the randomness of dice with flicking in a way that sounds like it will work.

Unfortunately it's out of print and Empire is not yet in stock here (Vancouver, Canada).
Thanks Adrian for your input!

Didn't mean you personally, more you as the group who'll be playing.

By the way, two player Empires uses the centre hex board plus three below, to keep space tight, whereas three and four player uses the whole board, all six hexes. Doubtless an expansion will take it to six player, I imagine that would be quite bloody with everyone so close.

I've been in the market for the same thing, but I haven't convinced my wife to try SE4X yet. We have Supernova and we have Exile Sun on the way, but those are much more 2X-style games.

A lesser-known game that we did pick up on the cheap is Imperium. I've played a handful of rounds solo to learn the rules (I made a rules supplement you can download as well) but I haven't gotten my wife to try it yet. It seems really fun, and is designed for two players with between-game effects that essentially give it perma-campaign mode. Having not played it very extensively with two I can't give it an honest recommendation though.

I'd like to hear more about how the aforementioned games play with just two players. One of the things I like best about the bigger 4X style game is the diplomacy aspect, and it's hard to recreate that experience with two players.

I'm pretty sure SE4X has zero diplomacy beyond what the the players themselves engage in. It's straight out build ships with better tech and clobber opponent. Empires of the Void seems to encourage diplomacy over combat but only between you and the planet not between players where it's unnecessary because you can fly right through your opponent. You only fight if you're going after the same real estate. Eclipse has some diplomacy I think.

As for Imperium, it's not even on my radar. I see it's a 1977 game. Man that's going back. Even Magic Realm is 1979 :-).

Where did you get your copy?