Firefly the game

repoman wrote: That's why it's called a house rule. Doesn't need to be for everyone.

Yep...and fair enough.

Mad Dog wrote: If someone placed the Cutter there knowing it would keep Al from winning I'm not seeing the problem. I would do it to him too so I could have time to catch up.

Absolutly true. It wasn't placing the cutter there that was a problem, it was that players could conspire to keep it there indefinately, greatly extending the length of the game. Given this realization and the fact that we had already been playing for four hours and it was getting past our bedtimes, we decided to "house rule" it. Upon further reflection I think that what this game really needs is some shorter scenarios so you can get in a game on a weeknight.

engineer Al wrote:

Mad Dog wrote: If someone placed the Cutter there knowing it would keep Al from winning I'm not seeing the problem. I would do it to him too so I could have time to catch up.

Absolutly true. It wasn't placing the cutter there that was a problem, it was that players could conspire to keep it there indefinately, greatly extending the length of the game. Given this realization and the fact that we had already been playing for four hours and it was getting past our bedtimes, we decided to "house rule" it. Upon further reflection I think that what this game really needs is some shorter scenarios so you can get in a game on a weeknight.

Firefly is an excellent 2-2 1/2 hour game. Not such a great 4-5 hour game. Which is why I started this post. Games like MoV, M&M, Talisman, Runebound, Mage Knight, Android, etc. are the same. About 1 hour per player give or take. Which is why I limit the games to 2-3 players and house rule to reduce playing time a little with new players or on week nights. My wife will play a 2 - 2 1/2 hour game of Firefly with me and my daughter she won't play a 4 hour game of firefly where she's totally getting screwed left and right.

KingPut wrote: Firefly is an excellent 2-2 1/2 hour game. Not such a great 4-5 hour game.

QFT. I probably would have done the same in that situation. But I wouldn't house rule it away entirely. I still think it's an anomaly and he probably could have moved it himself by just flying around it pulling cards. I bet it wouldn't have taken more than two or three turns with him doing full burns (particularly if had an engine upgrade) before it moved. The Cutter is always moving.

Played the solo game today about half way through but it was clear I had no chance so I stopped for dinner.

I had a question---where does cargo and contraband come from besides missions? I know that solid contacts besides the Alliance guy will pay for them, and that you can lose your stuff midmission and need to buy more. Where would you get more generic cargo and contraband?

Some encounters in space, like Salvage, allow you pick up cargo, as do some Misbehaving cards.

3x Firefly 2 player with my wife. I think it has fired Merchant of Venus.

Merchant of Venus is probably a significantly better competitive game, certainly much tighter and more economics oriented---not much/any hidden information on the board, which makes the calculations doable. But Firefly has a much better narrative factor even if it's far more random.

Until recently, I have only played Firefly once, and that was a partial game where we fumbled our way through the rules trying to figure out things on the fly. But I was very impressed with what I saw of the game, and have since become a big fan of Gale Force 9 games in general. So I was happy to pick up the base game for 60% off last winter. But it has been gathering dust since, because people would rather play new games, and some of my local gaming friends have already tried Firefly and didn't want to play again.

The big knocks against the game were fairly consistent: lack of interaction, long downtime, and too much luck.

In recent weeks, I played a couple of solo games to get a feel for the rules and to scout out if Firefly deserved the criticism or was actually a good game. I didn't play the solo scenario in the rule book, I played the First Time in the Captain's Chair scenario with either two or three "players."

Lack of interaction is definitely an issue, though a small expansion featuring bounty hunters and pirates fixes that issue. I didn't find downtime to be a problem at all, though of course I was playing as all players, so I didn't technically have downtime at all. But what I mean is that the turns went by fairly quickly, and I could see where other players could spend their free time examining discard piles, looking at what other people are doing, and plotting their next turn. As for luck, everybody here at F:AT understands that luck in a game can off be handled in terms of risk management.

I am tempted to pick expansions, but with an eye to attracting players back who probably tried Firefly just once with the base set. Aside from Bounty Hunters & Pirates, what other expansions might offer a different and better experience for a one-time player?

I've posted this in other threads, but I couldn't have been more wrong about this game. It has disappeared from my radar because it doesn't emphasize the things I think are best about the genre. It isn't a very tight economic game, so it's not the economic delivery game that Merchants of Venus is. It definitely isn't a pvp or interaction like game like Merchants and Marauders, which balances delivery and pvp perfectly.

Moreover, and I hit this over and over again, playing this game halfway decently is predicated upon knowing what is in the discard piles. And there are 100 of them which will quickly fill up. I admire your group for being able to spend their off turn time getting a handle on this but it aggravates me.

It's not a bad game but I think I'm done with it. Firefly is a good Firefly game as a setting but I don't think it's a great thematic game in terms of pick up and deliver or a broader open world space cowboy game (like something like Xia, which is also far from perfect). Moreover, the mechanics for your other activities just do not have enough predictability for my taste. You are not really in a position to make good decisions or feel prepared for anything beyond deliveries. You have three stats which are likely to come up in a roll off and the items you get will just randomly let you pass misbehaving checks with no rhyme or reason.

I like the game, but I'll admit it's as much about living a story as it is about trying to win. If that is your expectation (and your taste) then it does what it's designed to do really well. I can tell you the good and bad things that happened to me the last time I played (in May), and there are maybe one or two other games that I could do that right now . . . Acquire and El Grande off the top of my head.

"Downtime" is one of those things. I typically make pretty good use of it when I play. A big part of downtime mitigation is knowing when you can pass the dice to the next player, often only halfway through your turn. We do the same thing in Merchant of Venus, where one of us is settling up with the bank, one picking up passengers and a third plotting their course all at once.

Some groups just don't get that. I recommend spending the money on buying new friends instead.

I played it with five players (we had the expansion mentioned), and it was rough. There was just too much downtime, even when trying to maximize utilizing it through card searching. Like mentioned earlier, it might work out better if everyone is committed to shaving off what time they can.

Have played this many times with 3-4 players. IMO, its unfair to call it or compare it as a Pick-Up & Deliver game. If someone asked me for a Pick-Up & Deliver recommendation I wouldn't even think of Firefly. Its an adventure game set in space instead of Terrinoth or wherever. You have to enjoy games where you take your band of characters and travel around to find and complete quests for loot that you use to buy better shit when you go to town for shopping. You have random monster encounters while traveling and might do some risky dungeon-raiding (Misbehave deck) too. Now if someone asked me for a good scifi adventure game I'd probably recommend this one. Its definitely an experience adventure game not a strategy game though. Set your expectations appropriately.

Due to the lack of PvP we eliminated most of the downtime by taking simultaneous turns. Unless your ships are stopping at the same planet (rare due to size of board) or something similar there's usually no reason to wait for someone else to finish. Also, never play the suggested starting scenario. It will take forever because you have to pass tests in all 3 skill types, possibly needing to change crews entirely to do so, and still have a lot of money.

Finally, Pirates & Bounty Hunters was the worst expansion. Nobody ever takes the Pirate jobs because you potentially lose too much for too little potential gain. So they just make the discard pile bigger. The Bounties are fun occassionally but not used much because even with one of the Captains that gets a bonus you'll still make more just doing regular jobs. Only time anyone, in my group, has ever done Bounties after the first time we played with them was if they happen to come across one in a discard pile. Everyone talks up this expansion like it somehow fixes the game and adds great PvP into it. Neither of those is true. The only expansions that fix the game are the ones with additional boards because they allow you to replace lost cargo or contraband. Something you can never do in the base game.

engineer Al wrote:

Mad Dog wrote: If someone placed the Cutter there knowing it would keep Al from winning I'm not seeing the problem. I would do it to him too so I could have time to catch up.

Absolutly true. It wasn't placing the cutter there that was a problem, it was that players could conspire to keep it there indefinately, greatly extending the length of the game. Given this realization and the fact that we had already been playing for four hours and it was getting past our bedtimes, we decided to "house rule" it. Upon further reflection I think that what this game really needs is some shorter scenarios so you can get in a game on a weeknight.

Maybe I missed a rule when I played, but how would the Reaver greatly delay the player going for his final job? The Reaver being there only affects you if you begin your turn in that space, so you could Fly and then Work the job the turn that you move there. Sure, the Reavers may kill your crew the following turn, but if it's your final job, you don't need that crew once you have done your last Misbehavin' and loaded your cargo/contraband..

Besides introducing PvP, it seems like the Bounty Hunters & Pirates expansion would allow players to thwart a runaway leader.