Let's talk DUEL OF AGES II

Mad Dog wrote: Everytime people describe DoA2 it sounds more like an activity than a game. Like when kids play with toys or something.

It is. There's a bunch of rules, cards, tokens, and characters, but there's really no story arc to the game other than what you make up as you go along. It seems to me to be a weird wargame/RPG hybrid thing. There are better tactical games and there are better character-driven games, but DoA2 kind of mangles them together into this other... thing. "Kids playing with toys" is an appropriate description, but this toy has lots of icons and rules.

It's a great game for a small subset of gamers.

That's the #1 thing to remember about the game, and the #1 thing that turns off people not in that subset of games...that it's about playing first and foremost, not rules.

Sure, it tells you HOW to play, but you come up with the WHY and sometimes you modify the HOW if it doesn't suit your WHY.

Every time we've played it, I have no idea what we're going to do. I open it up and say "screw it, let's do all Ancients". I've run two player games with six characters each (which is kind of a mess and not really a great idea), I've run an eight player team deathmatch games with everybody having one character and a respawn, meaning we wound up seeing like 22 characters. "Everybody starts with a sword!"..."first player to get a vehicle back to their base wins"...

You can seriously do whatever you want with it...if time's a problem, just use the timer on your phone for 90 minutes and work up a points system or a simple goal. Of course, if you're playing with somebody that isn't cool with an ending that goes something like "I'm done, let's play something else now" then that might be an issue.

It's so open-ended, it's just a big invitation to goof off and explore, really.

I like that boss idea, haven't done anything like that yet.

How much utility are the folks who like it getting out of the master set?

As I understand the product line, to get almost everything you would just need the base set and the master set (I know there are collectors stuff and promos, is that substantial?). Is that right?

if you like the game, the master set is awesome.

the collectors stuff is really just a couple map platters, so nice to have but not really worth alot of effort to track down.

I've never actually played without the Master Set. You should be fine with just the core set, although there are some components in it that only become useful with the Master Set. It's a very easy expansion to integrate, because it adds nothing in terms of rules.

Look pointed it out already, but the Master Rules from the Worldspanner website are necessary.

When I really started getting into Duel of Ages, I assumed the appeal would be broader than it was in my group. I really like the game, but it does have that sense of just being an enormous playtime more than a standard game. As a result, the first game seems to disorient new players, and some people just don't like that. It doesn't really concern itself with victory conditions, but it would be very simple to create a situation that is strictly combat, or strictly questing to find individual treasures or whatever.

The most common question I get when starting a game is "so what do I do now?" It sounds evasive, but you can really do whatever you like. The game doesn't give really any particular clues to what you need to do, though if you're playing with standard achievements you can do pretty much anything and work towards one of those. I do think I might try my next game with like one weapon per character to start out, just to move everything along.

A friend of mine who is more experienced than I said that it really begins to open up when you play for a long scenario. I think I'd like to do this next time I play, just to give everything a chance to breathe. If you want a somewhat more directed scenario, you might try one of the ones that has escape points. There's also flags and everything like that.

I can safely say that this thread has quashed my interest in buying/playing DoA2. I'm pretty sure I don't fall into the sub-subset of people who will enjoy this game.

By the way, the negative comments for DoA2 on BGG are pretty funny. Some of my favorites:

This game is a ridiculous experience. Kind of like the 'sharknado' of games. Full of fiddly rules that read like something from a 1977 Avalon Hill war game before it got to the editors desk. So much complexity for very little benefit, as most things that happen, feel almost totally random....At the end of the day, that this game has a good ranking is the single most surprising thing I have ever seen on BGG.

This game looks like it was printed in the past and stored in a warehouse that said "Do not open until 2013".

If those comments are accurate, it sounds like a legitimate problem with the game. It is possible to bury an otherwise good game in excessive chrome. Maybe even too much randomness could be a problem, too, if it inhibits playing with any sort of actual strategy.

That guy clearly never played Fortress: America.

The rules aren't complex. They're not even that copious.

It's WAY less complicated and rules-laden than many beloved AT classics. Arkham Horror is MUCH more complicated, fiddly and flakey as is TI3.

It's VERY straightforward. It is NOT full of chrome. In fact, there really isn't any chrome- the rules are actually a very generalized system that would work for ANY kind of man-to-man scale melee or ranged combat...WITH vehicles, equipment, weapon variety, animals, and other things added with cards but NOT additional rules.

There is PLENTY of strategy, just as much as in any Squad Leader-descended combat game. Coordinating abilities and functions is important. Making the most of your gear and reacting to enemy position/action is what the game is all about.

I think the idea that it's some kind of ultra-niche game is overstated. The "niche" is made up of the kinds of people that are worth playing games with. Anybody not in its "niche" is probably playing games for a different reason than I am, that's for sure.

Then Duel of Ages II definitely sounds like my kind of game. I had my on the original for a while, but I didn't have any opportunity to try it first, and the stuff that I was reading about it at BGG gave me doubts. This new edition looks like a game I would enjoy.