How would you sell Kemet to Eurogamers?

I have one group of friends that will play anything but trends toward AT stuff. Then there's another group where one guy is a "play anything" but his wife and the rest of the group are Euro-people. You can talk them into playing something like Chaos in the Old World, but they clearly won't "get it" and will rather stridently suggest Power Grid the next time gaming comes up (based on a true story.)

Kemet is a hybrid, IMO, because it has TONS of detail and it's DoaM but it's also very Euro-y in the application of those details and doesn't have that many base rules. What I think would be selling points are that it can proceed very quickly (a property that most Eurogamers seem to demand) and that there are many routes to victory, based on the tiles obtained. But I'm not sure if they'd be put off by that same complexity and the fact that the theme isn't like reading a shipping manifest from 19th-century Hamburg. Plus the "Gotcha!" aspect of some of the DI cards.

Anyone have any experience teaching this to what are largely non-AT folks?

I would think that Kemet would sell to Euro fans well. It has no dice (we're clearly not counting the pyramids), you all have the exact same combat cards, access to the same power tiles, the map is designed to keep everyone equal distance from one another and the DI cards, although surprising at times, are limited and all printed in an easy to read format so that you know everything that can happen. The combat isn't personal because it's exactly what you need to do to get points. Alliances can happen but don't mean as much because of the fast play. You can easily play down the meta aspects of this game (although they are there if that's how the group plays).

It's a very Euro-y DoaM in many ways. The only turn offs would be the DI cards and the aggressive nature but I think they're both mitigated enough that it should still appeal. I'd sell it as a hyper balanced DoaM with VERY minimal luck. That might not be entirely true but I'm sure that it is at least debatable and you could make a convincing argument for it.

Work placement game. They're not dice, they're pyramids your master builder get to build.

While you're at it, why not throw yourself into the Grand Canyon and count the number of sedimentary layers that mock you on the way down?

Seriously, I'm not sure that you want to push Kemet on a bunch of players who have little interest in playing.

I had a strong Euro-bias for years, and I didn't start branching out until I burned out on the genre because everything started looking the same. That took a while, though.

By the way, for me, Power Grid is still awesome, and I'd rather play PG than Kemet.

When I game with the Euro crowd, I suggest highly interactive Euros rather than AT games: Age of Steam, Power Grid, Tigris and Euphrates, etc. I also advocate for unusual Euros that aren't just "more of the same" (worker placement, etc.). I like Spectral Rails, Age of Industry/Brass, Modern Art, Snow Tails (if that counts), and many others.

It's all about comfort zones and Venn diagrams, and I think Kemet may be too far outside the mathematical set that these folks are used to dealing with.

I didn't say "push". I said "sell".

I'm not certain they'll like it or dislike it. I'm going to make a pitch. If they want to play, fine. If they don't want to play, fine. I was looking for advice on how to present it to them as a game that they might enjoy because it strikes me as a fairly Euro-ized DoaM. That's all.

Sales pitch:

It's got a dude riding a giant scorpion!

If that don't sell the game nothing will.

Jackwraith wrote: I didn't say "push". I said "sell".

I'm not certain they'll like it or dislike it. I'm going to make a pitch. If they want to play, fine. If they don't want to play, fine. I was looking for advice on how to present it to them as a game that they might enjoy because it strikes me as a fairly Euro-ized DoaM. That's all.

Fair enough. Sorry if I came off a bit heavy handed. It's just tough to get people to play games that aren't similar to the games that they already play. Catch-22, etc. And even if you do get them to play, there's no guarantee that they'll like it. (Like, a 15% chance that a strict Euro gamer will like an AT game? Less?)

Either way, good luck with the pitch. I hope that you get everyone to play, then beat them badly enough that they never want to play again.

In my experience, the difference between Eurogamers and AmeriTrash players goes beyond mere mechanics. Exclusive Eurogamers tend to be uncomfortable with any sort of direct attacks in a game. The closest they get to enjoying conflict is passive-aggressive cockblocking in worker placement games, or winning a blind bid. You're better off finding other players.

I was going to say the same thing as Shell, in essence. If any of the players are not comfortable with direct conflict, then there's probably no way to sell them on Kemet, which not only thrives on direct attacks, but really requires them in order to be successful. It's a fantastic all-around game, though, and people who just love great *games*, without needing to put labels on them, should love it.