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× Talk about the latest and greatest AT, and the Classics.

Let's Talk Illuminati

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02 Jun 2014 09:09 #179532 by Legomancer
Yesterday I found myself wanting to play Illuminati. I'd played the shit out of it in college and have a lot of love for it. I own the Deluxe edition with the Y2K, Bavarian Fire Drill, and Mutually Assured Distraction expansions.

I love the game but I understand why others don't. It's clumsy, the different Illuminatis are not remotely balanced, and it has the usual Ameritrash polarizing elements: dice, randomness, player elimination, take-that, direct attacks, general goofiness. It plays exactly like a game from the 80s, down to the fact that it doesn't recommend playing with three, assuming you have four people who are down for a game of Illuminati.

But it's got so much good potential! Part of the attraction for me is the theme. I was into the whole Illuminati conspiracy nonsense back before the Internet made everyone an expert on it. I'm the guy who was the only person who ever checked out Charles Fort's The Book of the Damned from the LSU library. I read The Illuminatus! Trilogy not once but twice, and then later a third time! Hell, I read Cosmic Trigger, which was as big a load of nonsense as could be communicated on paper. So yeah, I'm down with the theme, and that probably explains 80% of my enthusiasm for the game. (Side note: It really, really bugs me that SJG acts like it invented and owns the whole Illuminati, Pyramid, Fnord, Discordian, etc stuff, but we have a post to get through so let's not get me started on why SJG bugs me.)

I was completely stoked for the CCG, Illuminati: New World Order (INWO), but found it to be utterly unplayable as sold. It had absurd rules (you got one automatic takeover every turn. Imagine, Magic Players, if once per turn you could put down any creature you wanted without having to pay for it. What would your deck look like?) and broken cards that essentially gave a player multiple turns in a row. Back then I hopped on usenet and asked people, "Are we playing INWO wrong? All of our game last only three rounds." and got the response, "If your games don't last three rounds you're doing something wrong."

The game is dated not only mechanically, but thematically, with cards like "The Phone Company" but I think there's something there. It might be as simple as paring down the massive number of cards to a more reasonable stack to get rid of some of the dated and wonky ones, as well as the boring ones that don't add much. I know some folks have ways to fix INWO that I haven't really looked at. I should, but I just don't know how well I could sell even an allegedly fixed Illuminati game to my group again.

Anyone have any thoughts on these games?
The following user(s) said Thank You: HiveGod

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02 Jun 2014 09:21 #179535 by san il defanso
I have never played, but I think Illuminati wins the award for the game where I know the most people who used to play it. I swear that like half my friends say, "Oh I used to play that all the time! Haven't played in years though."

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02 Jun 2014 10:06 #179544 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Re: Let's Talk Illuminati
My friends and I played a lot of the first edition Illuminati back in the '80s. I doubt that we will ever play it again.

Why did we play it so much? There weren't as many games back then, and Illuminati offered a lot of replay value. It was mildly funny, and allowed for a lot of player interaction: bluffing, bribery, threats, attacks, alliances, backstabbing, etc.

Why did we stop playing it? Other games came along. The extensive arithmetic was sometimes tedious, with lots of +/- 1 modifiers to be tallied with every takeover attempt, changing as people spent more money. The expansion with the mind control laser that could change alignments wasn't fun enough to justify the hassle. The biggest problem was that the endgame took almost half the game. One or two players would get close to winning, and then the leader-bashing would drag things out for a long time.

Although I enjoyed several CCGs, I didn't like the idea of an Illuminati CCG, so I ignored it. Eventually, the local game shop had a sale that I couldn't ignore: the factory box for $12 and the Sub-Genius expansion for $1. I have only played it a couple of times since then. The CCG did improve some things, especially by disposing with the tiny bits of money that were always drifting about the table with the slightest air movement. But other things seemed off, especially that one automatic takeover per turn.

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02 Jun 2014 20:22 #179600 by allismom3
Replied by allismom3 on topic Re: Let's Talk Illuminati
My group also used to play this quite a bit. We tried a 6 player game about a year ago and it was a drag. When hour 3 rolled around we were all ready for it to just be over. I have a huge pile of NWO, I pared it down to a (semi)relevant deck- we played the one deck variant and dropped some of the added on rules. We liked it better, the auto take over rule made the organization building quicker so we could get to the attacking and deal making/ braking part faster. The action token system works better than those stupid money chits. We liked this version better, but like has been already stated- there are better games out there. I don't think I can convince my group to play either version again.

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02 Jun 2014 21:05 #179606 by Michael Barnes
Game is fucking awful. Always was, always will be.

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02 Jun 2014 22:36 #179615 by Space Ghost
I think that INWO is a pretty good CCG -- it is different enough than other CCGs that it is interesting. However, it does take some time to get used to the rule set and the flow of play.

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02 Jun 2014 22:44 #179616 by RobertB
Replied by RobertB on topic Re: Let's Talk Illuminati
I too played a ton of Illuminati back in the 80's. Like you, we weren't exactly glutted with choices.

I still have a copy, and dragged it out for my brother (who had _never_ played back then) and my nephew (who wasn't born back then). I told them, "It looks cool, but we're going to stall out and this is going to take two hours before someone can push through the other players and win." But by some god draw or the other, I won in like 20 minutes. My brother says, "That was fun! Let's do that again!" Two hours later, we finished our second, and his last, game.

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04 Jun 2014 11:50 #179626 by Legomancer

Space Ghost wrote: I think that INWO is a pretty good CCG -- it is different enough than other CCGs that it is interesting. However, it does take some time to get used to the rule set and the flow of play.


Which rules do you play by?

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04 Jun 2014 21:07 #179689 by SuperflyPete
If anyone wants a copy, hit up Eric J Carter on Facebook.

The artist.

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05 Jun 2014 08:04 #179714 by Legomancer

SuperflyTNT wrote: If anyone wants a copy, hit up Eric J Carter on Facebook.

The artist.


Did he get "paid" in copies?

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