The Tantive IV, Strategy, and Physical Limitations

I got in my first game with the Tantive IV last night. It was me and a slightly less (but still somewhat) experienced player flying Imps against an equally experienced Rebel player. We're all casual.

This ship is awesome. I'm not just talking about physically, it plays very well. It feels huge, it moves at just the right speed, the way the energy management works - it all rocks.

However, the thing is damn good. Our opponent put three secondary weapons on the beast and he was blasting away at our large ships (Firespray and Lambda) at Range 5 and reliably doing damage. Crazy. We went heavy on TIEs, two Interceptors, One Bomber, Firespray (Krassis Treelix), and Lambda. Also had Vader.

We planned on focusing on the transport (which didn't seem like the obvious strategy of taking down the escort first, but I wanted to try it). We took Concussion Missiles on Vader and Advanced Proton Torpedos on the Bomber and Firespray.

First of all, focusing on the transport is a death sentence. It's too hard to kill and can regenerate all of its shields by expending energy. Meanwhile, B-Wings and X-Wings are chipping away at your heavy hitters and you end up way behind. Also, Advanced Proton Torpedos kind of suck. The range 1 limitation and requiring you to Focus as well as Target lock is very limiting. Getting into range 1 of the Tantive IV without being run over or put in a horrible position on the following turn is very difficult. Next time I'd take regular proton torpedos or more missiles.

Also, flying 14 ships on the Empire side on a 6'x4' with 12 asteroids is...difficult. Way too many collisions, especially with our big ships, way too difficult to thread through the lanes in the asteroid field. This will require more skill.

I was a little disapointed with the fact that I felt like we could have really benefitted from an additional Firespray or two, and more TIE Bombers and Interceptors. I'm not going to spend another $300 on this game just or epic play, but even a large 20 ship Imperial collection felt lacking. Disappointed in this regard.

Over all, we really loved it even though our Imperials were getting slaughtered. This feels like advanced play, requiring skilled players to really get the most out of it. As a Rebel player, you definitely need to be aware of the fact that the big's ship movement is wonky and hard to predict distance. Be very careful as you can easily run over your own ships if you stay too close and make an odd turn or two.

Excellent write up! I can't wait to get the big ships on the table, but sadly for me that won't be for another few weeks at the earliest.

For the Adv Proton Torps, get the Bomber that increases the range by 1...That makes a huge difference. Then if you get the Shuttle that can move target locks, use a gunner to get two at a time and the upgrade to get them anywhere on the table, you're golden for getting that massive hit off. Also with the larger table you'll be able to get a ton of TL's on ships before you engage with that Shuttle.

Also, playing a 4' wide table put you at a disadvantage right off the bat, standard Epic Play table is 3' x 6'. Adding 25% means that's an extra turn or two where that Range 5 can weaken you. But of course that means a tighter asteroid field which you said hurt on the bigger battlefield.

It also sounds like you needed some Heavy Laser Cannons on your big hitters.

As far as feeling like you need more...I'd hold that thought. To me it sounds like your fleet building could have gone a bit better, you admit you went in with a bad strategy, and admit that your flying skill could use some polishing. These are things you can address before spending money.

We had the Lambda that could pass off Target Locks with the Title that lets you use the whole board. I thought about the increased range TIE Bomber but it was expensive to slightly modify just a single shot. It may have been worth it though.

We also had an HLC on the Firespray (along with an Advanced Proton Torpedo).

The issue with the Lambda that can pass off target locks is the requirement that you can only pass it off at a distance of 1. Manuevering with all of those ships was very difficult not to run into each other (once you got to the action) so the Lambda would often lose its action and I also had a hard time keeping things within 1 distance.

I think playing 2 players on the Imperial side didn't help either. It made us physically break up our ships (you take those TIEs and fly down the right side) rather than more naturally choosing strategy without regards to player control.

We probably should have taken an HLC on the Lambda. I'm still skeptical of using the TIE Bomber pilot that can adjust range along with advanced proton torpedos. Points-wise it's pretty expensive for a single shot that will probably do around 4 damage. The Tantive IV could refresh 4 shields a turn, so you have to hit it hard all at once.

Also, asteroid placement is huge. If you're the Imperials going against a large ship, just make a line across the middle of the table (closer to their deployment zone if possible), as running into asteroids with the Huge ships hurts (I believe it's an auto-crit on them).

You really need to take out the escorts (at least the X and B-Wings, A-Wings aren't too big of a threat), and then get around behind the huge ship where it can't hit you. Just plan on losing some heavy hitters before you're taking on the big ship.

Also, Assault Missiles are of course good, but I'd think they're mandatory for a Rebel player in Epic play. Just so many TIEs on the board.

EDIT - In retrospect, I think the playing area was like 3.5 feet wide. It was on a pool table using the inside bumper to bumper.

ARghhhh no more talking about this... unless people feel like funding my purchases.

Da Bid Dabid wrote: ARghhhh no more talking about this... unless people feel like funding my purchases.

I tell you, it's worse if you've just got one of them. I got a Rebel Transport and was so impressed with it that I just desperately want a Tantive now. But the price is a bit crazy. Hoping I might pick up some damaged stock or a second hand model in the near future

Oh yeah, I forgot about that Range 1 restriction on passing the TL. And if you're losing your actions as well due to collisions, that's a killer.

It is pricey using the Bomber that increases range. Especially if you add in a second Adv Torp on it...But you should get 5 hits easy with it if you can get the TL/Focus combo. Or drop Push the Limit on it so it can do it on its own. But I'd use him more in an escort killer role myself and let the swarm of ties perform the Death by a Thousand Papercuts strategy.

How much energy was this thing creating per turn? If it costs One Energy to recover One Shield, and it generates 3 a turn by turning '1'...How was it regenerating all its shields? Like I mentioned I haven't played with it yet, so I'm liking missing something.

He only turned once, otherwise he moved short distances straight to get 3-4 energy a turn. He only had to recover shields one time (when we got close). He reinforced his hull a couple times so we could only peck away at it.

It's also worth mentioning that due to having to scatter to avoid collisions and also worry about the escorts, even though our strategy was to target the big guy we often had to resort to attacking other ships or getting no shots off. We kind of abandoned our strategy half-way through when things got hot.

Does an Advanced Proton Torpedo really average 5 hits? I would think not, as a Blank can't be changed and I think by odds you'd get at least one blank. Still, 4 hits is solid and you're right, we should have taken out a B or X-Wing isntead with it.

I definitely could have flown better to take advantage of the Lambda's target lock passing off, but I still don't think it's great. It's an OK ability. I think a cheaper Lambda with an HLC and just using it in a heavy hitter role would have been better given our ship limitations.

So yes, you're right, use the heavy hitters to drop escorts and use the massive amount of TIEs to chip away at the Huge ship once the escorts are down.

It's also worth mentioning that the Rebel guy threw Han and several other weapons and upgrades on the CR90. I think this is probably the best build (multiple secondary Turbolasers/Quad Laser cannons and some kind of weapon team), but a CR90 without a weapon team/han and only a single secondary weapon will not be quite as scary.

It was just rough the first time he shot us at 5 range, rolling 4 dice against the Firespray's 2 agility. He had a couple of lucky rolls but it felt terrifying as the Firespray lost all of its shields from one round of CR90 firing.

A couple more things that come to mind:

Epic play is long. I think we played for around 3 hours and called the game early due to it being clear we would lose. With regular playing and only 2 players you could probably play an Epic game in 2-3 hours. Selecting your forces in a 300 point game is also a 20-30 minute process.

We had fun the entire time and it didn't feel long, but it is something to be cognizant about if you don't have 3+ hours to play.

One huge benefit to playing a 300 point game on a larger table with a Huge ship was the positive effect it had on increasing the depth of strategy. Manuevering was more crucial (due to smaller openings/congestion), planning was more important, and synergies and builds were a bit more open due to having such a large amount of points to work with. You could take ships and characters you wouldn't normally field since you have such latitude in force building.

One player, who only games with us occasionally, remarked that he wanted to be invited back the next time we play Epic play but for standard play he probably wouldn't come.

Advanced Protons allow you to change three blanks to "Eye" results, so using the TL, then converting three blanks on five dice to eyes and cashing in a Focus to change to hits should mean you'll get five hits just about every time.

I like the Lamda with the TL passing for the first turn or two setting up your first pass, after that though it does fall off a cliff as far as usefulness.

Going straight nets either 3, 2 or 1. And each shield requires 1 energy to recover. And if he was using secondary weapons that would eat up most energy so he couldn't bank it. Was he adding per card? Unless I'm looking at some bad info on Energy Generation.

You added in the extra 3 Agility Dice for being attacked at Range 5 right?


EDIT: Also, I'm pressing the energy thing because it sounds like it works differently than what I figured in my head which usually means I've missed something and I'm trying to figure out what.

EDIT 2: Now that I'm thinking about it, I may have the entire Energy Economy off in my mind.

EDIT 3: Oh...Engineering Team. That seems like a must for every build. Extra energy. MMmmmm...I'm finally really looking at these cards and seeing what they can do.

I didn't inspect his build so I'm not 100% positive on what he took. I'm pretty sure he played energy correctly though. I think he did have an Engineering team (which you will probably want to take most of the time). So I think he was getting 4 energy a turn.

We didn't engage the Tantive IV for several turns as we coordinated our attack and took down a stray B-Wing. He built up energy on weapons in this time.

He used 4 energy on one turn to restore shields (after we gave the ship a beating).

You don't get bonus defense dice at Range 5 from the secondary weapons. Range penalties only affect primary weapons. Now, the Turbolaser had some special rule that it doubled our Agility (not sure if this is just long range or always) so we did roll 4 dice for the Firespray or 2 dice for the Lambda, but 4 attack dice beat 4 defense dice a majority of the time. The nasty part was a turn where he hit the Firespray with 3 separate attacks from the huge ship.

One more thing - fear the coordinate action. He took the ability/equipment/notsurewhat that allowed him to choose two ships when he performed a coordinate. Wedge and a B-Wing having Target Lock and Focus is just ugly. This is limiting because he has to stay near the Tantive IV, but that's not too hard to do since it moves so deliberately and slow.

There was this awesome moment where the Rebel player had to fly by the front of the CR90 with a couple of X-Wings and a B-Wing. We decided to throw some Academy pilots in their way, hoping to collide and stall the Rebel ships so that the CR90 would run over them. The plan worked, but it was half an inch short of running over Garvin and Wedge. Ugh.

Oh yeah, you're right about the Advanced Proton Torps. I forgot about that.

Damn...When I was first looking through things I figured Energy would be at a premium. That doesn't sound like the case. I did have my Energy Economy all messed up. And it sounds like he had this thing armed to the teeth.

What were your thoughts on targeting the front or back half of the ship? Was it hard to focus on one section? Or more just take what you could get?

And now I'm wondering if just mass numbers would be better to spread its fire and cause it to burn energy on multiple targets would be better then higher-point/higher-skill ships like the Bomber with Adv Torps.

Thanks again for the post, it has me thinking completely different about what this thing can do and what to do against it. It really has given me some drive to get a game in with it sooner rather than later.

No problem, we talked about the game for a good 30 minutes afterwards and I'm still itching to discuss it more.

We discussed the fielding a massive swarm idea to minimize its ability to take out expensive targets but we're undecided. The issue is that you need more than 2 firepower TIEs generally to take out the escorts. If you take too long in taking out the escorts you may succumb to overwhelming fire. I'm not sure though.

Targeting a specific section is tricky. Our opponent put most of the guns (but not all) on the front section. So our options were to cripple the front section and neuter his attack, or cripple the back and neuter his power. I think you're best bet is getting behind the thing and repeatedly attacking it outside of its firing arcs. Take out the rear and he can't bring back shields or reinforce the hull reliably. You've probably won at that point.

Taking out the front is too difficult. The issue is that you kind of have to fly by it to attack, and you have to keep a somewhat wide berth, as if he runs you over you die. So it's difficult to get sustained attacks on the front.

Even armed to the teeth the thing was less than half his points (I think it was around 130). After looking at some similar discussion on BGG, it seems most people are coming to similar conclusions that you want to beef it up with weapons and Han/Crew to give it teeth.

My opponent's list was something like this:

Prototype A-Wing
Green A-Wing with Assault Missile
Wedge with a cheap astromech
Garvin with a cheap astromech
Generic B-Wing with HLC
Nub B-Wing with Autoblaster

We took out the Generic B-Wing with HLC first and the two A-Wings were largely ineffective (he could have destroyed us with the Assault Missile but missed). Wedge, Garvin, Nub and the CR90 were the real bastards. Wedge was the small ship MVP, target locking and focusing and taking out TIEs reliably.

Next time we play I hope to field the CR90. Think I will do a 2 A-Wing list with Assault Missiles, a HWK-90, and X-Wings. I think you may want to leave the B-Wings at home when fielding the CR90. If you assume the Imps will try to focus down your escort first, you want ships with decent agility/staying power. The B-Wing can take a pretty good beating but I don't like the fact that even at Range 3 TIEs can peg away at it. Much harder to damage an X-Wing at Range 3 when using TIEs. I think being able to outlast your opponent is huge tactically in this regard.

Usually I play the Rebels so trying to think about how I would combat this thing has been a challenge. Especially when thinking about what the Defender and Phantom are able to do and how they're going to slide into the mix here in a week or so.

Played a team epic game this weekend. Me and another guy took the Imperials against a single person running with the Tantive and a fine mix of B-wings, X-wings and Z-95 missile boats with a few E-wings thrown in..

I was flying both named Tie Bombers and Vader with missiles and focused on the tantive and quickly crippled the front end and with it two Quad lasers. At this point I ignored the tantive and attempted to engage the escort.

The Tantive basically became an unstoppable battering ram, since no further damage could be done to the front... I like the idea of crippling sections, but I think it would be better if a crippled section can also be destroyed (so flip the card and have a new hull value and after it is wiped out the ship is toast.)

My teammate thought we should continue to attack the Tantive's rear and in retrospect he was right. As the rear still had a splicer tool on it and we lost the game pretty badly.