One Night Ultimate Werewolf - Tips and Tricks

I like the original werewolf/mafia just fine as a party game. This version sounds overwrought and fragile, playing well only if players agree to play it in a certain way that is not fully enforced by the rules.

Shellhead wrote: I like the original werewolf/mafia just fine as a party game. This version sounds overwrought and fragile, playing well only if players agree to play it in a certain way that is not fully enforced by the rules.

Fragile? Perhaps. But not any more so than Cosmic Encounter, Citadels, Werewolf itself, The Resistance, etc.

Shellhead wrote: I like the original werewolf/mafia just fine as a party game. This version sounds overwrought and fragile, playing well only if players agree to play it in a certain way that is not fully enforced by the rules.

I don't know where you're getting this "not fully enforced by the rules" thing. Every tip and strategy discussed here is completely by the rules, and is even also in the SPIRIT of the rules (they're not game-breaking exploits).

Shellhead wrote: I like the original werewolf/mafia just fine as a party game. This version sounds overwrought and fragile, playing well only if players agree to play it in a certain way that is not fully enforced by the rules.

how is the game fragile or overwrought? The most fragile part is silently taking night actions, nothing else about the game is fragile

The quoted section of the initial post showed people not enjoying the game because they weren't playing it right. If the rules aren't channeling the game towards fun play, then it seems like there wasn't enough playtesting and the gameplay relies on the players to figure out how to make it fun.

Shellhead wrote: The quoted section of the initial post showed people not enjoying the game because they weren't playing it right. If the rules aren't channeling the game towards fun play, then it seems like there wasn't enough playtesting and the gameplay relies on the players to figure out how to make it fun.

It's the same issue that can crop into any social deduction or negotiation game. Games such as that often rely on people bringing a large portion of the game through social interaction.

That makes sense that social games can be sensitive to the group dynamics of a particular group of players. However, comparable problems can come up in other games, such as a bossy player dominating a co-op game. Death Angel successfully addressed that with the instinct keyword on certain cards, forcing a player to make an immediate decision without any input from the other players. As another example, some DoaM games are greatly diminished by turtling players, but a game can have certain built-in rewards or incentives that only benefit aggressive players.

Shellhead wrote: That makes sense that social games can be sensitive to the group dynamics of a particular group of players. However, comparable problems can come up in other games, such as a bossy player dominating a co-op game. Death Angel successfully addressed that with the instinct keyword on certain cards, forcing a player to make an immediate decision without any input from the other players. As another example, some DoaM games are greatly diminished by turtling players, but a game can have certain built-in rewards or incentives that only benefit aggressive players.

I don't think there's any way to incentivize someone to be clever in a social deduction game. I think the rules could be better with a strategy section, but how do you pat a player on the back mechanically when the reward is getting another player to reveal information? I don't think it's possible in this genre.

It's like if you play with a group of players that play Resistance without discussing anything or playing Blood Bound and everyone keeps taking their number wound first, using their power fruitlessly. Social deduction is all about wide open vistas where you have to outmaneuver the other players and your legs are purely fueled by social interaction. These games thrive on lack of mechanics, not restrictions and hand-holding.

You do need to play this game several times in order to get a feel for it, but it takes 4 minutes to play, so I don't fault that. If you and 4+ friends sit down and give this game 45 minutes, you'll see the how open this game really is to different strategies and play styles.

To talk about the OP, Dragonstout said "pretty often, there were three non-villager roles in the center (a werewolf and then two of Seer/Robber/Troublemaker)". Given that he's playing a 5p game this means he's playing with 3 vanilla villagers (of 8 total roles) and at least twice they were dealt to players, that's unlikely and will hinder the game at 5p as not enough Village team information cards are out there. DS identified this problem, and the solution is to take out a villager or two and add in a role that give information to a team that needs it. Since the game is totally modular, you can make bad setups, and I understand why the book says play with 3 villages for BEGINNERS, but after everyone's got 2-3 games under their belt, they're ready to start coming up with their own lineup of roles.

Bull Nakano wrote: To talk about the OP, Dragonstout said "pretty often, there were three non-villager roles in the center (a werewolf and then two of Seer/Robber/Troublemaker)". Given that he's playing a 5p game this means he's playing with 3 vanilla villagers (of 8 total roles) and at least twice they were dealt to players, that's unlikely and will hinder the game at 5p as not enough Village team information cards are out there. DS identified this problem, and the solution is to take out a villager or two and add in a role that give information to a team that needs it. Since the game is totally modular, you can make bad setups, and I understand why the book says play with 3 villages for BEGINNERS, but after everyone's got 2-3 games under their belt, they're ready to start coming up with their own lineup of roles.

Yeah, I think we were just unlucky. Four out of our five games had two "special villagers" and a werewolf in the middle; that should only happy 6/56 = 11% of the games. For it to happen four times out of 5, we're talking a 1/1666 chance.

Shellhead, as has been pointed out by everyone else, ALL social deduction games are "fragile" in a way, in that they need to be played with creativity and ballsiness about lying in order to work. We just found this one particularly tricky, which to me just implies that a little "tips and tricks" in the rulebook would've help jumpstart us (just like Imperial, another game that's difficult to wrap your head around, also had "strategy hints" in the back...usually those kinds of things are lame, but they're helpful when you're starting out on a very unconventional game). It is NOT a matter of "unfun tactics/strategies are the best way to win", as in the cases you referred to; I'd completely agree that that is a genuine flaw in some games, where playing against the spirit of the game is the best strategy for winning. With Battlestar Galactica, for example: regardless of whether it really is better or not for a Cylon to out himself really early on, the rules make it look very TEMPTING, what with getting to choose Crisis cards and ignore jump symbols and all, and I think that was a mistake, as it clearly leads to less fun for EVERYONE.

Yeah, I think the lack of specials in player's hands really made the difference. After each game, we all tried to brainstorm ideas like what charlest has suggested, but because of our role-less experience, all of brainstorming was "what if a Villager claims he is <Special Role>? What can he gain off of that?", and we found that there wasn't much point in a villager claiming Seer, nor a villager claiming Robber, only in a villager claiming Troublemaker. Whereas charlest's suggestions are mostly not suggestions for what the villagers can claim, but rather what the people who were dealt special roles can do with those roles.

We resisted adding MORE special roles because we've always had plenty of fun with vanilla Werewolf with a Seer, just plain vanilla Resistance is great, and Resistance + just Merlin is super-duper great.

dragonstout wrote:

Bull Nakano wrote: We resisted adding MORE special roles because we've always had plenty of fun with vanilla Werewolf with a Seer, just plain vanilla Resistance is great, and Resistance + just Merlin is super-duper great.

Oh man, kitchen sink Resistance: Avalon can be unbelievable. Also, Percival adds so much to the game.

your review of the game (Charles) was certainly very convincing, but then I watched a video on BGG with 4 people going through the rules and then playing and wondered if I just dont get whats going on

boardgamegeek.com/video/38596/one-night-...ht-ultimate-werewolf


basically in the first game it seemed like "table leader" kept saying hes a villager, like his word was a fact, the other two guys both said what roles they had, again, as though the point of the game is just to all say the truth, and then they said "so the werewolf must be Nicky" (the girl). And I was like, erm, what? table lead4er guy kept prattling on about whether his cards had or had not been swapped like that was the key to the game. I guess I just dont get it

ldsdbomber wrote: your review of the game (Charles) was certainly very convincing, but then I watched a video on BGG with 4 people going through the rules and then playing and wondered if I just dont get whats going on

boardgamegeek.com/video/38596/one-night-...ht-ultimate-werewolf


basically in the first game it seemed like "table leader" kept saying hes a villager, like his word was a fact, the other two guys both said what roles they had, again, as though the point of the game is just to all say the truth, and then they said "so the werewolf must be Nicky" (the girl). And I was like, erm, what? table lead4er guy kept prattling on about whether his cards had or had not been swapped like that was the key to the game. I guess I just dont get it

I'm not sure I'd ever choose this game if I only had 4. It certainly works with 4 but it limits the number of interactions/roles.

One problem with those games is they aren't very experienced and clearly not sure what to do. That's common with this game, it takes a few plays to get it, unfortunately.

They seem afraid to lie which is an issue. If the female in that first game (the Wolf) lies and says she's the troublemaker now what does the rest of the table do? Or imagine she said she was a villager right away? Now, what do they do, they need to decide who to believe? Also, they don't know that the Wolves aren't in the middle of the table. She's playing very poorly and doesn't even lie and claim a role until it's way too late. Playing as a Wolf as a newbie is rough because you have to have a lie decided upon before the round starts.

You also see the stupid 4 way tie thing which is dumb. The game should just let you not vote which is the same thing but not awkward and also has a side effect of fixing the Tanner tanking the game.

The second game is a bit boring. You do see some of the interesting dynamics in terms of negotiation/solving the puzzle as they try to figure out the third guy. The Seer not looking in the middle makes for a less interesting game here as there's no Troublemaker. If someone would have lied and said they were the troublemaker they could have claimed to swap the unknown guy and someone else to try and get him to reveal his role. The Seer looking in the middle also would have seen at least one Wolf for sure which would have helped.

Third game shows some of the potential as they start to understand the game. See how they're trying to solve the puzzle of who did what and certain people are revealing bits of information but we also see the power of lying. My games of this are a little more rowdy/emotional.

Sometimes you tell the truth, new players never know what to do, Nicky gave herself away and game night is awful.

Anyone check out the Daybreak expansion yet?

I had a couple people tell me they didn't think it added anything to the game but more confusion and unnecessary chaos, so I went into it not quite sure what to expect. My group ate it up though and we'll be using it in every game going forward.

Review just went up:
www.2d6.org/2015/03/one-night-ultimate-w...-daybreak-expansion/

Favorite roles are for sure the PI, Witch, and Mystic Wolf.