Front Page

Content

Authors

Game Index

Forums

Site Tools

Submissions

About

KK
Kevin Klemme
March 09, 2020
35165 2
Hot
KK
Kevin Klemme
January 27, 2020
20836 0
Hot
KK
Kevin Klemme
August 12, 2019
7428 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
December 19, 2023
3981 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
December 14, 2023
3506 0
Hot

Mycelia Board Game Review

Board Game Reviews
O
oliverkinne
December 12, 2023
2079 0
O
oliverkinne
December 07, 2023
2587 0

River Wild Board Game Review

Board Game Reviews
O
oliverkinne
December 05, 2023
2257 0
O
oliverkinne
November 30, 2023
2499 0
J
Jackwraith
November 29, 2023
3020 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
November 28, 2023
1973 0
S
Spitfireixa
October 24, 2023
3696 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
October 17, 2023
2626 0
O
oliverkinne
October 10, 2023
2462 0
O
oliverkinne
October 09, 2023
2291 0
O
oliverkinne
October 06, 2023
2509 0

Outback Crossing Review

Board Game Reviews
×
Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

Recent Topics paging, uploading images and preview bugs require a patch which has not yet been released.

× Talk about the latest and greatest AT, and the Classics.

Revisiting: Descent Second Edition

More
18 Aug 2014 12:18 - 18 Aug 2014 12:19 #185245 by scissors
Borrowing Mad Dog's rubrik to ask about Descent 2.0. It's no secret neither implementation of FFG's flagship dungeon crawler has ever gotten much love at F:AT... anybody changed their mind after playing it?

SU&SD like it, Rab likes it, Drake called it better than Warhammer Quest for goddsakes. And co-op rules for the base game are reportedly out.

More than those who hate Descent (we know who you are cough cough Barnes) or hate FFG in general (we know which FATTies those are too) anyone like or gasp love this system? enough to be on board for spansions as much as the oft discussed Netrunner, Xwing, etc?

ERP guys, let's not turn this into a Fuck FFG rant.

- a dispatch from A.R.M. nukular sub headquarters
Last edit: 18 Aug 2014 12:19 by scissors.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Aug 2014 12:48 #185252 by Sevej
I have the base game, one big expansion, and trying to get all the el-tees for those. If it wasn't for my minimalist approach, I would've gotten everything.

My first campaign was 2 players with 4 heroes. Finished in under 1 week. 2 players is best, since it's easier to just get one other person to commit to the campaign.

I'm still looking for that fabled dungeon crawler though...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Aug 2014 13:16 #185259 by VonTush
I've always liked the game a lot. It isn't without its flaws, primarily with it being more of a race game than a dungeon crawl. With a dungeon crawl you expect to slash your way through everyone, to get lots of fat loot along the way and then eventually make it to your goal. With D2.0 though the heroes have their goal and the DM has his and often it feels like the heroes are the ones under the gun. If someone stops to try to slash through everyone it will seem like it is impossible to complete some of the scenarios. Instead of asking "I wonder what treasures are in that stash?" players need to ask "Do I have time to check out that stash?"

There's more game to it I feel than Warhammer Quest (which sucks, face it) and Hero Quest.

The DM-less rules, it sounds like will be getting a complete expansion box instead of these little PoD and Game Night expansions so far which is awesome. Where I read that though? I can't remember...I did a lot of my GenCon reading late night so I may have imagined it.

The guys around my shop have been threatening starting up a campaign soon.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Aug 2014 13:34 #185261 by Bull Nakano
I think the main problem is folks expected a dungeon crawl but got an objective based hack and slash game. That's cool with me, I already have a few dungeon crawls. It's got a bit of gamey-ness to it, particularly in the movement rules, but the ruleset is really easy to play and teach.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Gary Sax

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Aug 2014 13:34 #185262 by DukeofChutney
I'm not a fan. I don't think its a terrible game, but it doesn't really give me what I want from a dungeoncrawl. The reality is I prefer actual roleplaying and don't have the same problem organising that, that many people do. So descent always feels like weak mass produced sauce to me. Ignoring my lack of love for FFG's writing I found the game a bit grindy and not that immersive. I need character death in my dungeon crawls, so I prefer WQ and DQ.

VonTush is right, that it is more of a race than exploration game. Having to make constant efficiency decisions sort of knocks me out of any immersion in the crawl experience.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Aug 2014 14:30 #185270 by dragonstout
I thought it was an actual terrible game, and this is from someone who got MANY hours of incredible enjoyment out of Descent 1E, but was eager to see it streamlined nonetheless.

The best explanation of why Descent 2E ended up sucking, by far, is the I've Been Diced podcast on the subject; anything I'd say would just be repeating their excellent observations:

[url=I thought it was an actual terrible game, and this is from someone who got MANY hours of incredible enjoyment out of Descent 1E, but was eager to see it streamlined nonetheless. The best explanation of why Descent 2E ended up sucking, by far, is the I've Been Diced podcast on the subject; anything I'd say would just be repeating their excellent observations: http://ivebeendiced.blogspot.com/2013/03/ive-been-diced-episode-43-descent-into.html]I've Been Diced - Descent 2E[/url]

The problem is not that it's a race game or a tactical game per se, but that it's a boring one, with intrinsic problems; examples of intrinsic problems include the freedom of the DM to choose monster groups, thereby allowing for the encounters to be REALLY absolutely broken in EITHER side's favor; this is touched on well in the above podcast. People who say "the balance is fine, obviously, because people equally complain that the overlord is too powerful as that the players are too powerful!" are full of absolute shit; the scenarios, especially with particular monster combinations, skew extremely toward one side or the other, but that does not just "balance out"; instead, every game is FRUSTRATING. As described in the above podcast, it's even frustrating when you're WINNING.

Another excellent point gotten at in that podcast is: you don't really care about dying. No, for real, "dying" feels like a speedbump; at a bare minimum, no one would claim that "staying alive" is a top priority. There's no sense of progression in an encounter. The encounters are decided within the first turn, but then take many more turns to play out. Anyway, just listen to the podcast (the first 25 minutes or so).

Every game we played of Descent 2E was literally worse than the worst game we ever played of Descent 1E.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Hex Sinister, Attrition

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Aug 2014 14:46 #185273 by VonTush
Couldn't the same be said about the group of Heroes? That mix as well could grossly balance or unbalance the game?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Aug 2014 16:25 #185280 by dragonstout

VonTush wrote: Couldn't the same be said about the group of Heroes? That mix as well could grossly balance or unbalance the game?

It's possible, but in our experience it was more clearly felt with the monsters. In any case, the same being true of the heroes would just be more of a negative.

Just in case anyone misunderstands: when I talk about "balance" here, I'm not saying that I want it to be equally matched between the heroes and villains, which is basically never true in this kind of game. I'm just looking for enough balance for there to be some kind of contest, where the multi-hour game is not effectively decided within the first 10 minutes.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Aug 2014 16:25 - 18 Aug 2014 16:32 #185281 by scissors
The mystery to me then, is why 11,600 people own it (BGG numbers ) and why so many people like it as much as they do.
Last edit: 18 Aug 2014 16:32 by scissors.
The following user(s) said Thank You: southernman

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Aug 2014 16:31 #185282 by bomber

dragonstout wrote: People who say "the balance is fine, obviously, because people equally complain that the overlord is too powerful as that the players are too powerful!" are full of absolute shit; the scenarios, especially with particular monster combinations, skew extremely toward one side or the other, but that does not just "balance out"; instead, every game is FRUSTRATING. As described in the above podcast, it's even frustrating when you're WINNING.


I have this problem with Memoir 44 (obvious thread derail, sorry) - some of the scenarios are so hopelessly unbalanced that its shite to play either side, yet still the number of people who will argue till they are blue in the face that taking turns to play each side "balances it" is unbelievable. I don't see any fun in a 2 round fight where you each have one round to kick the other one in the balls and he can't do anything and then vice versa in the next round. Thats not balanced, its just boring.

back on topic, I'm guessing thats what you mean here, or along those lines?
The following user(s) said Thank You: dragonstout

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Aug 2014 17:09 #185287 by VonTush

scissors wrote: The mystery to me then, is why 11,600 people own it (BGG numbers ) and why so many people like it as much as they do.


Cause really and truly it is a good game. There are some quirks, no doubt on that. It is challenging for both sides and creates some interesting decisions to make both in game and between games.

For my money it is the best attempt at a dungeon crawl with some character advancement, a connected and narrative campaign system and a dungeon lord role that is engaging rather than just controlling massive spawns of monsters whose purpose are to be cut down by heroes to give them experience.

There are so many elements going on here that you almost have to expect balance to be out of whack at times. This isn't a premapped scenario like Memoir '44...This is a combination of Heroes, Selected Hero Powers, Monster Mix, Overlord Cards and the scenario itself that needs to come into balance.

It isn't a game for all people, but for those looking for a Dungeon Crawl that has some tactical and strategic choices its pretty damn good.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Aug 2014 20:10 #185301 by Sevej
I've had really good experience with the game. Sure it's not balanced, but it's just like Master of Magic being unbalanced.

I really enjoy the "complete package" even within the base game. 4 character archetypes with 2 classes each, just enough amount of monsters, and that campaign...

The overall feeling I get from the game is good. It flows well eve with its quirks (diagonal movement & LoS through corner intersection), it plays with little fuss. You can find a LOT of conflicting abilities & timing, but in general I keep those in line by having me as the final word (just can't believe those FFG guys that took over after the original designer left).

The tiles are great, you get to whack monsters too. While it can be a race game, I didn't feel it that way, at least not all the time.

The game is mainly a resource planning (your action) with awesome visual presentation. It's not that much of a "meaningful decision game", but that actually gives us the chance to enjoy the theme.
The following user(s) said Thank You: VonTush

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Aug 2014 20:45 #185307 by san il defanso
I played it twice just after it came out, and we had fine intentions of doing a big ol' campaign of it. But life intervened to the tune of a second child and I couldn't keep in it. It's too bad, I actually liked it quite a bit. One thing is that it is still very much Descent, in that it's really more of a tactical miniatures game than a dungeon crawl. It was just a much more streamlined one than it was before.

I'm really not able to comment on it much besides the fact that I did really enjoy it, and grasped it much easier than the big game. I would like to revisit it eventually.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Aug 2014 20:47 #185308 by dragonstout

scissors wrote: The mystery to me then, is why 11,600 people own it (BGG numbers ) and why so many people like it as much as they do.

It's a complete mystery to me, too! I feel like we were playing different games...which is I think the solution to the mystery. With a different set of monsters, in a different scenario, with different heroes, you might get an entirely different game; or at least, you might sometimes get the game as it SHOULD work, and sometimes you get "oops, the overlord uses Charge to put a dragon in the hallway on the first turn, and from there on the heroes just slowly hack at it each turn, while the Overlord hides the speedy monsters behind the dragon and on his turn they pop through the dragon, whack a hero, and then pop back behind; rinse and repeat for a couple hours (this is even more 'fun' if the monsters behind the dragon are flesh molders or whatever, so they can also be healing the dragon)".

I don't get it. Does this kind of thing not happen in the Descent-lovers' games? If not, why the hell not?

Really, anyone thinking about getting this game NEEDS to listen to that podcast, as it's the only place where I've seen my exact experience with Descent 2.0 described to a tee (that, and mjl1783's comments on here warning us all not to get it). And I really, really wanted to like it.
The following user(s) said Thank You: SebastianBludd, mutagen

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
18 Aug 2014 21:43 #185312 by VonTush
Either your post is exaggerated or you were misplaying some rules.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Gary Sax
Time to create page: 0.371 seconds