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Distributors declining games based on BGG ratings

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31 Oct 2014 16:24 #189691 by charlest

JEM wrote: Taking the Spartacus game as an example, maybe that game shouldn't have made it to distribution, because I;ve seen it being dumped in a few clearance sales. I bought it myself when it was under $25*, and surely nobody is ordering in pallets of $50-$60 MSRP games hoping to get back $25 (is that even break-even for a retailer?)

*great for me, not so great for the store? They got me eventually with the expansion, though.


Yet they came out with an expansion and are coming out with another one soon.

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31 Oct 2014 17:19 #189695 by Shellhead
Spartacus MSRP was $40, I believe.

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31 Oct 2014 17:20 #189696 by Shellhead

Gary Sax wrote: I actually think this has been a solid/interesting discussion, not friday freakout, from both sides... thanks!


Die, Gary, die!

;)

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31 Oct 2014 20:10 - 31 Oct 2014 20:14 #189698 by Jexik
Someone should tell that distributor to stop carrying Munchkin; it only has a 6.06 average rating on BGG. Get rid of Zombie Dice too, it's only at 6.33. You know what? Just call Steve Jackson and tell him his games are terrible and impossible to sell.

I don't know why Barnes went into another KS tirade here. This would still lead to distributors picking up crappy KS games; those can easily get 20+ 7's. What this really hurts is any games that fall outside of BGG's main demographic. If BGG represented "hobby games" as a whole, M:tG, and Munchkin would top the list.

I'd actually be curious to ask Colby how he secured distributors originally for Summoner Wars. It might have gotten these 20 ratings pre-release just from the initial testers and Heroscape friends he had, but it still seems pretty arbitrary. How do you get ratings before a game is out? Send it to 20 reviewers and hope they update their BGG profile? I know that Dungeon Run (6.46) sold out in just a year or two while City of Remnants (7.23) is gonna take a lot longer.
Last edit: 31 Oct 2014 20:14 by Jexik.
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01 Nov 2014 12:23 #189717 by SuperflyPete
Because he had a LOT of help with marketing and buzz creation, Jexik. You know who and what I'm talking about.

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01 Nov 2014 12:51 #189718 by veemonroe
Twenty ratings isn't really that many. We have a prototype that's currently undergoing early playtesting and I think - even at this early stage - I could get six people to give it a ' 6'. By the time it's gone through playtests, blind playtests, further development, I'm pretty sure we'll be able to get 20+ people to go onto BGG and say something nice about it...

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01 Nov 2014 16:29 #189721 by Jexik
I'm less worried about the 20 ratings than pointing to an average rating of 7 or higher. As overreaching as we think it is, BGG represents a relatively small proportion of people who buy and enjoy games- Steve Jackson Games has been propped up by a game that the serious hobbyists think is a waste of time. I've never owned or run a store, but I'm sure there are other examples of this, such as Fluxx maybe?

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01 Nov 2014 17:05 - 01 Nov 2014 17:09 #189722 by Chapel

Jexik wrote: Someone should tell that distributor to stop carrying Munchkin; it only has a 6.06 average rating on BGG. Get rid of Zombie Dice too, it's only at 6.33. You know what? Just call Steve Jackson and tell him his games are terrible and impossible to sell.


Yes but the difference between those is one is a veritable unknown publishing a game on KS and the other is Steve Jackson. He already has a resume that distributors can attest too.

Using BGG as a metric is a good thing not because the ratings are good or bad, it's that it's there, available. The ratings themselves don't have to really mean anything at all. It's the other stuff that's useful

I can see a game who has 20+ ratings and see a lot of interesting information.

#1, I can see if those ratings were done by people who have rated lots of games, or 20 new shill users.

#2 I can compare what those people who rate the game enjoy besides the games they just rated high or low.

#3 Sure I can find really good games that are rated really low on bgg by a butt ton of people. But you know what that says to a distributor? That a butt ton of people have bought that game. The rating itself means nothing.

BGG as a metric is more than just the niche rating of a hobby, it's a nice varied sample of the hobby in lots of different and interesting ways.
Last edit: 01 Nov 2014 17:09 by Chapel.
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02 Nov 2014 02:18 - 02 Nov 2014 03:05 #189731 by veemonroe

Jexik wrote: I'm less worried about the 20 ratings than pointing to an average rating of 7 or higher. As overreaching as we think it is, BGG represents a relatively small proportion of people who buy and enjoy games- Steve Jackson Games has been propped up by a game that the serious hobbyists think is a waste of time. I've never owned or run a store, but I'm sure there are other examples of this, such as Fluxx maybe?


Yes, but - in reality - it's going to depend on the distributor. Here in London, there are three board game/hobby shops and a big branch of Forbidden Planet.

Forbidden Planet is a geek culture superstore with a small board game section selling FFG products, Munchkin Everything, Gloom, and Ninja-Zombie Fluxx. The rest of the store is full of £500 statues of Han Solo, SF & fantasy books, keyrings from TV shows, that kind of thing. I think distributors recognise that geek culture increasingly sells through cons, opinion formers, and Kickstarter. I imagine that, if a game gets Felicia Day excited, the distributor for Forbidden Planet isn't going to turn it down based on BGG ratings.

BGG is a different market segment. And, if you're a board game distributor, you're probably right to use BGG. Two of the board game shops attract the type of hobbyists who go on BGG. Orc's Nest has KdJ and SdJ winners prominently displayed as you go in. Leisure Games has a big rack of traditional and children's board games like big wooden chess sets near the front, along with Ticket to Ride, Dobble, etc. In case you're wondering, the third shop - Dark Sphere - mostly deals in Magic and non-Games Workshop miniatures. They only have one or two board games like Catan.

The board game shops do sell the Munchkin stuff, but it's not their primary offering. Leisure Games shove Munchkin near the back, with the obscure wargames. Orcs Nest have it near the till, and upstairs, along with a plush Cthulhu, but it's not given undue prominence. A Munchkin-like game has to be everywhere to earn a shelf spot with the RPGs, miniatures, traditional games, eurogames, kid's games, dice, paints, etc.

I don't think many people realise that - at least here in London - board gaming and geek culture are not interchangeable. And board gaming isn't necessarily done by serious hobbyists. I attend a board game club that now runs seven days of the week in pubs around London. They usually get 20-50 people every night, often with a waiting list, and more at weekends. Most of the people aren't stereotypical geeks, or belong to geek culture at all, and many are playing casual games like Coup, Ticket to Ride or Carcassonne. For the newbies I've talked too, they enjoy board games because it's a way of socialising without going to a noisy club or being expected to drink excessively. So I guess it fits the same social category as learning ballroom dancing, attending an evening class in French or hearing a poetry reading.

Needless to say, a geek culture friend went to this club once and hated it. He thought it was full of unfriendly suits. Likewise, another geek culture friend found it baffling that I had a doctorate in geophysics, had read Isaac Asimov, was a science writer, owned multiple board games... And didn't share any culture reference points, e.g. TV shows, attending cons, a fascination with zombies, watching TableTop. It is now perfectly possible to be a *geek* who doesn't belong to geek culture.
Last edit: 02 Nov 2014 03:05 by veemonroe.
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