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Laissez-nous parlons... Franco-Trash

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13 Nov 2014 22:34 #190626 by repoman
What I really dig about French and Italian games is that they are so free from the chains of "expectations" that enslave thematic games coming from the US lately. They may do fantasy but it'll be some really off the wall fantasy, not another D&D or Tolkein knockoff. Or if the do a theme that seems familiar, the art will be vastly different than the cookie cutter type stuff we see so often.

I think Eastern Europe is the place for new and innovative mechanics in games but France and Italy is where to go for new and fresh style and feel.
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13 Nov 2014 23:14 - 13 Nov 2014 23:16 #190627 by Colorcrayons

Mr. White wrote: It's not uncommon for Europeans to be the champions of Ameritrash. After all, I'd guess that most would recognize the UK's Games Workshop as the flag-bearer of Ameritrash for about a decade and a half (late 70's to early 90's).


Games Workshop?


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They deserve credit for Space Hulk as the last decent quality product to be released from the isle of Avalon, and a few other games when they actually produced games and not garbage. But I shall begrudgingly concede that they were once relevant.

*blows out smoke*


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13 Nov 2014 23:39 #190628 by Colorcrayons

Michael Barnes wrote: Haven't played Giants yet, but I'm always on the lookout for a trade on it.


Giants is an interesting case. The seconndnd of games produced by Matagot? It has the component quality that they are now known for. Yet it was a bit of a flop from what I can see.

The game plays well enough, with a very interesting and unique theme. But it just missed the mark a bit as being a bit fiddly for what it is trying to accomplish.

But the point is that its not just a product. They took a chance on making something special. And it certainly is. But it went one step further, and could be argued that this is art. A thing that has some flaws in comparison to the competition, but stands head and shoulders above what other publishers achieve by rushing out merely "product" to sell with even bigger warts than this. One simply has to look at FFG to understand this. Mansions of Madness anyone?

Game publishing is a business, but it doesn't just have to be a business. We need more creations like Giants being made, and less product like Mansions of Madness in existence.


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14 Nov 2014 03:26 #190632 by bomber

repoman wrote: What I really dig about French and Italian games is that they are so free from the chains of "expectations" that enslave thematic games coming from the US lately. They may do fantasy but it'll be some really off the wall fantasy, not another D&D or Tolkein knockoff. Or if the do a theme that seems familiar, the art will be vastly different than the cookie cutter type stuff we see so often.

I think Eastern Europe is the place for new and innovative mechanics in games but France and Italy is where to go for new and fresh style and feel.


this is actually a great Point that I skipped over - yes, the themes, characters and ideas the Infogrames guys came up with were definitely "unique", quirky and very original, so when I said "fantasy" it really should have come with the attached Point that you make here, interesting that you see that even now in boardgames (the computer stuff was like 15 years back)

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14 Nov 2014 08:19 #190633 by Mr. White
These photos are perfect. What are they from?

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14 Nov 2014 08:45 #190639 by DukeofChutney
I find frenchy trash intriguing but have not actually played much of it. I am familiar with Fadutti and own Mascarade, but other than that I've played Cyclades which i wasn't that impressed with.

What are the top Frenchi Trash games?

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14 Nov 2014 09:24 #190644 by SuperflyPete
Every Frenchyfrenchman has an American inside, waiting to burst out of their chest like in Aliens. Think about it...we win wars, we have a stable economy, and we haven't allowed Sharia law to supersede American law. We Americans are like a different species.

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14 Nov 2014 09:31 #190646 by Cranberries
I would suggest that inside every Rollerblading, neon-spandex-wearing French mime is a gangster waiting to burst out:



So their games are innovative, but there is a brutal streak.

I half-heartedly tried to contact Boelinger when I was in Nice, but he doesn't check his geek mail that frequently.

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14 Nov 2014 09:46 #190650 by VonTush

Colorcrayons wrote: We need more creations like Giants being made, and less product like Mansions of Madness in existence.


Bullshit. Nothing is complete and utter horse shit like the crap is this quote.

This "game as art" and "strive for better" crap has been pushed and repushed over and over again - And it is bullshit. There is no need to try to elevate one game at the cost of bashing another. Pretentious tripe.

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14 Nov 2014 11:45 - 14 Nov 2014 11:49 #190674 by Colorcrayons

VonTush wrote:

Colorcrayons wrote: We need more creations like Giants being made, and less product like Mansions of Madness in existence.


Bullshit. Nothing is complete and utter horse shit like the crap is this quote.

This "game as art" and "strive for better" crap has been pushed and repushed over and over again - And it is bullshit. There is no need to try to elevate one game at the cost of bashing another. Pretentious tripe.


Well that's the flavor here, the stereotype of the pretentious french beatnik.

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But there is a subtext which does ring true, of pushing the bounds of what boardgames are capable of within the constraints of its materials.

Android is another great example of this. Kevin Wilson has told me personally that it was his art game. You're not given many chances within the industry to do something like that and he said that was his one opportunity.

If the envelope was pushed more, instead of tired retreads of previous mechanics for the sake of money (which let's not mince words here, mansions of madness surely is this, just as surely as imperial assault is), then we as consumers get less burnt out and more eager to see what the creative minds of designers want to release.

Mansions of madness isn't being picked on at all. FFG have done a fine enough job making a mess of that themselves.

The french have illustrated with quantifiable results, that while their titles may not be the most financially successful, some are. They took the chance of not slapping the a pre existing game engine (like the doom/descent engine) on top of a theme with minor refinements and calling it a new game.

I'm sorry that you feel striving for better is foolish tripe. But that's one area I won't back down from. We need innovation. Anything else is formulaic stagnation.

I'm glad to see that I can play generic contrived fantasy descent, Lovecraftian descent (with some android mixed in) or star wars descent. But it could be handled better, by a publisher who self proclaims themselves a leader of the industry. It doesn't take a leader to make people walk in circles.

[Edit] @ Mr. White: the pics are mercilessly stolen from uncleeddiestheorycorner.blogspot.com [/edit]
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