Scum and Villiany

So.... FFG has released Scum and Villainy. I was super excited for The Most Wanted set, getting to use my 2 Firespray with my 2 Hwks and adding a Y-wings to the two I own and 2 z-95s to the one I own, basically giving my a whole faction for $40! (2 firesprays, 2 hwks, 3 z-95s and 3 y-wings would give lots of options even without the other three S&V ships.)

But now I have read that official rules say you cannot use rebel dials/imperial dials with the S&V ships and visa verse. I have not seen this in the rules or tournament rules, but it does come from some pretty reliable and regular players and play-testers over at FFG event center.

I know it won't matter in games against friends, but on rare occasion I do play in tourneys. So in order to field two Hwks and two Fireprays or more than one Y-wing I would need more Most wanted sets... just for dials? Or if I want to use black sun z-95s with my rebels I need more rebel dials. Most Wanted looks like less of a bargain then I though.

its a ruling that's come down from Alex Davy, the current lead designer. so figure it will be in the upcoming FAQ/tournament rule release.

you get two sets of y-wing dials..so that's something.

That's some bullshit but consistent with most companies' "Buy more!" tournament rules, right? GW comes to mind re: using old/inaccurate models.

Are the dials different at all?

no practical difference in dials, they are a different color of cardboard.

They haven't been hiding this fact at all, and so people who follow the forums mostly know about it, but they've never announced it "officially". Its a negative thing, and so its hard to spin that in the PR leading up to wave 6 release, but I think its a mistake and makes people feel cheated.

I had not noticed the extra Y-wing dial... that is nice. Still seems like a stain on what looked like a good move. Not a GW type "screw you customers" since it does let you use ships you already own, just not a great deal, like I originally thought.

That is some petty ass bullshit. But not surprising.

If it's my store and my tournament, you can draw the fucking dial on a paper towel for all I care as long as you follow the actual rules of the game and not the rules made up to force you to buy more product.

I expect the ships to be eventually available individually at some point with a deck of new pilots and upgrades. I also expect a Scum Firespray and HWK to be released as well. And to be honest, that ruling isn't that surprising to me.

Basically all FFG has to do is come up with some more pilot and upgrade cards, slap a repaint on an existing model, put the Scum faction on it, and place an order for tens of thousands of units with the factory.

The Most Wanted in a good deal to get you going and ease you in, less of a good deal if you want to go all out out of the gate.

Let's come down to reality and really look at what you're getting here.
$40 gives you three ships. $45 gives you three of the same Rebel ships.
$40 ALSO gives you dials and cards to allow you to use one Firespray, one HWK and one Y-Wing.

So...Assuming you already have a Firespray, HWK and YWing, $40 gets you enough to field six ships from a new faction. But it isn't as great as a value because you happen to have a second Firespray, HWK and YWing that you want to use?

Relax a bit, no one will care what you use in casual play or more informal tourneys. At a FFG event, I see their point though. There are materials made for a specific faction and those should be used.

Really though, calling a $40 package that individually a money grab that would retail for $45 individually and also gives you materials to utilize three additional ships likely already in your collection, is just unreasonable bitching. Buy one for now, you'll have plenty there, and then it'll save you bitching down the line about having too many Scum ships when the Firespray, HWK and YWing Scum individual packs are released with new pilots and upgrades.

Gary Sax wrote: That's some bullshit but consistent with most companies' "Buy more!" tournament rules, right? GW comes to mind re: using old/inaccurate models.

Are the dials different at all?

GW doesn't care about old/new models.
They just want the models to reflect how they are equipped. It prevents stuff like "Oh, this guy with the flamer, he's actually carrying a Heavy Plasma Cannon. Did I forget to mention that?"

edulis wrote: I had not noticed the extra Y-wing dial... that is nice. Still seems like a stain on what looked like a good move. Not a GW type "screw you customers" since it does let you use ships you already own, just not a great deal, like I originally thought.

Without dials for Firespray, HWK, YWing: "This is a good deal. They took $5 off a set of ships that would be $45 at retail".
Months later: "I just placed my pre-order for the Scum version of the Firespray, HWK and YWing. Super stoked!!! Can't wait to bolster my Scum forces!!!"

With dials for Firespray, HWK, YWing: "This is a GD money grab, they're making me buy two if I want two Scum Firesprays".

VonTush did you read my statement you quoted... I said it was a good deal, just not great.

Anyway. I think the current rules allow you to mark you dials for ownership... I've seen people with the back of their dials painted. So I guess I could just paint all of my dials white and be done with it.

Yeah. You said it wasn't great because in order to use your two Firesprays you'd have to buy two Most Wanted packs.
It became less of a product because FFG went above what they could have done but didn't go far enough for you.

VonTush wrote:

Gary Sax wrote: That's some bullshit but consistent with most companies' "Buy more!" tournament rules, right? GW comes to mind re: using old/inaccurate models.

Are the dials different at all?

GW doesn't care about old/new models.
They just want the models to reflect how they are equipped. It prevents stuff like "Oh, this guy with the flamer, he's actually carrying a Heavy Plasma Cannon. Did I forget to mention that?"

And bullshit on this I have several pounds of Orks from first and 2nd edtion 40k. Armed with bolters, plasma guns, hvy plasma cannons.. on and on WYSIWYG! But along comes third edition codex... Shootas! WTF is a shoota? Where are my Heavy bolters? Dreadnaughts? Hop-splat gun? Squig Catapult? Oh gone.

Didn't say that old stuff didn't disappear. Just that as long as it is a GW models and conforms to WYSIWYG then it's all good.

I lived through GW in the 90s/early 00s. While bringing your 1987 beakies was technically legal, it became increasingly difficult to match them to the developing army lists with their new mandatory HQ choices, etc. WYSIWYG was always touted as a rules thing "for clarity" but there was always a feeling that it was a fait accompli when combined with ever-changing army lists and revised model sizes, styles, standards etc. There were arguments in my local GW about fielding old-school rhinos because they were smaller than the newer models, so they were more likely to get cover saves. Woe betide anyone who scratch-built one.

Anyway, carry on.