Front Page

Content

Authors

Game Index

Forums

Site Tools

Submissions

About

KK
Kevin Klemme
March 09, 2020
35142 2
Hot
KK
Kevin Klemme
January 27, 2020
20819 0
Hot
KK
Kevin Klemme
August 12, 2019
7405 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
December 19, 2023
3967 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
December 14, 2023
3495 0
Hot

Mycelia Board Game Review

Board Game Reviews
O
oliverkinne
December 12, 2023
2075 0
O
oliverkinne
December 07, 2023
2583 0

River Wild Board Game Review

Board Game Reviews
O
oliverkinne
December 05, 2023
2253 0
O
oliverkinne
November 30, 2023
2496 0
J
Jackwraith
November 29, 2023
3014 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
November 28, 2023
1973 0
S
Spitfireixa
October 24, 2023
3692 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
October 17, 2023
2620 0
O
oliverkinne
October 10, 2023
2461 0
O
oliverkinne
October 09, 2023
2289 0
O
oliverkinne
October 06, 2023
2505 0

Outback Crossing Review

Board Game Reviews
×
Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

Recent Topics paging, uploading images and preview bugs require a patch which has not yet been released.

× Talk about the latest and greatest AT, and the Classics.

When Does Complexity Interfere With Your Fun?

More
02 Mar 2015 13:31 #198650 by Shellhead
Ran another session in my long-running D&D 3.5 campaign. The highlight of the session was a battle between the player character party group and an npc group of characters were roughly the same level (10th/11th). It was a complex fight to run, including spells, spell resistance, concealment, cover, blindness/dazzling, sickness, poison, acid, attacks of opportunity, flying, splash weapons, unconsciousness, and death. An hour after the fight, I was feeling mentally fatigued. Sometimes I even have a mild headache after running a D&D session, and I normally only get a headache if I am hungover or otherwise very sick. And yet, the big fight was fun, and could have gone either way, especially when it was down to just one active combatant on each side.

Reflecting afterwards, I realized that there are some boardgames that leave me feeling wiped out afterwards, but usually just the ones that involve extremely complex rules. I can usually enjoy those games during play, but sometimes pay a price afterwards in terms of mental fatigue or even a headache. Off-hand, the only games that I can recall hitting me this way are Twilight Imperium, Android, and Mage Knight. There have probably been a few others. Pondering those three games, I think it may have been the complexity of the strategy as much as the rules that affected me. Lots of combinations of possible choices each turn.

Is this an age thing? When I was a teenager, I played some AH war games with a friend on a semi-regular basis, and while we may have sometimes struggled with the rules, I don't remember feeling drained after a game.

What about you folks? Are there any games that you have played where the overall complexity somehow hindered your enjoyment of the game.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Mar 2015 13:34 #198651 by SuperflyPete
When complexity for complexity's sake, or for vanity's sake, is built in.
The following user(s) said Thank You: bfkiller

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Mar 2015 13:45 #198653 by repoman
I don't think being mentally fatigued is a bad thing. It reflects deep involvement and focus. Like being physically tired after doing hard work or playing sports.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Mar 2015 14:07 #198655 by Scott_F
Teaching/running a game with rules that take more than 10 minutes to cover often gives me a headache after the game too. Alot of the time I don't notice it during a game day until the very end. I'm normally the person explaining the rules in alot of games I play and while I perversely love rules it is mentally fatiguing trying to explain your knowledge of a system to someone that has never played it. Last time I ran Cyclades with Hades I had a pretty bad headache afterwards, but I partially blame that on the game of Tammany Hall we played first.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Mar 2015 14:35 #198656 by Colorcrayons
I'm not exactly sure where my threshold is on complexity sucking fun out of a game.
Perhaps the more seamless a designs cogs work with itself and the theme (making it more intuitive to play and learn), the more fun I feel it is. So even complex games can still be great if the complexity makes sense.

But I still assert the games I find the most fun are lower complexity, 90% of the time. Survive, Rampage, King of Tokyo, many abstracts, nexus ops, cosmic encounter, etc. The usual suspects.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Mar 2015 15:31 #198664 by Sagrilarus
It's your age. If I'm reading it right you're only about 20 years away from Shuffleboard and Dominoes (both fine games by the way) being the top end of your intellectual capabilities. Reading the X-Wing and DC Deck-Builder threads leads me to believe that I'm about five years farther down the hill than you are.

S.
The following user(s) said Thank You: SuperflyPete

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Mar 2015 16:08 - 02 Mar 2015 16:13 #198668 by Attrition
The point at which complexity interferes with beers, complexity, by extension, interferes with fun. That unnecessarily complicated sentence construction must now be atoned for with beer.
Last edit: 02 Mar 2015 16:13 by Attrition.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ubarose, jay718, ThirstyMan, Colorcrayons, wadenels

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Mar 2015 17:06 #198671 by Erik Twice
When complexity prevents me from playing a game more often, then it's an issue for me.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Mar 2015 22:30 #198676 by jason10mm
I felt the same way running PF. 5e fixed most of that.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Mar 2015 07:32 #198681 by DukeofChutney
depends on my mood and the experience im looking for. I actually tend to very simple RPG rulesets, DnD basic, traveller and variations there of. But i do play complex hex and counters and high frontier. For me, these complex games are still worth the mental energy but only sometimes. I like playing Bhonnanza a lot too.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Mar 2015 08:16 #198683 by Legomancer

Erik Twice wrote: When complexity prevents me from playing a game more often, then it's an issue for me.


Same. There are games I've gotten rid of even though I like them because they're so opaque that unless I (and the other players) played once a week, every single game would be a "learning game". The one that springs to mind first is Dungeon Lords.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Mar 2015 09:09 #198687 by stoic
Every time that I try to read and understand the rules to Magic Realm, its complexity interferes with my fun.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Mar 2015 09:32 #198691 by Shellhead

stoic wrote: Every time that I try to read and understand the rules to Magic Realm, its complexity interferes with my fun.


Excellent example. So far, Magic Realm is the only game that I have been unable to learn.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Mar 2015 04:22 #198752 by Kailes
Complexity that feels artificial sucks all the fun out of a game for me, once I notice that it is artificial. Usually that's the case with games that have a lot of stuff going on, but after a while you notice that some of the stuff is almost irrelevant to the outcome of the game. That's a big letdown. Over the last few years I also started to dislike the complexity added by special powers more and more. Which is strange, because those special powers once drew me to Magic and similar card games. Might be due to oversaturation, since most games add some special powers and the Warhammer and Lord of the Rings LCG had special powers on almost every card.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Mar 2015 09:18 #198757 by OldHippy
For me it's all about time. If I invest the time into the game the complexity should disappear regardless of how complex the game is. Every system I've encountered in a game is digestible given time. So hopefully, for me, complexity never interferes with fun with the possible of exception that it can interfere with fun during the first few plays. If a game isn't intriguing beyond it's supposed complexity than that can deter me, but the complexity by itself never will.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Gary Sax
Time to create page: 0.174 seconds