504 games in 1?

That's what Friese is peddling:

" 504 is a game that creates 504 different games out of one box. The game consists of nine modules: Wargame, Pick-up & Deliver, Production, Streets, Exploration, Racing, Majority, Add-Ons, and Stocks.

In each single game, you take three different modules from the nine available and assemble them in any order you like to create a new game.

This can be a Wargame with an economy based on Pick-up & Deliver with bonus scoring from Majorities.
This can be a Racing game on a board that starts small and grows through Exploration together with some tech-cards to be acquired as Add-Ons for better racing or exploration.
This can be an 18XX-style stock game — the player colors are companies with stocks — with network building (Streets) for the income and building Production sites to produce the workers for the street building.
Each single game takes from 30 to 120 minutes to play."

Early reviews are that it's fun, balanced and a huge difference depending on the hierarchy of modules. Really interested in this one from a design perspective.

While it's certainly interesting as an experiment, I find it hard to believe that any of its permutations will provide a better game than you could get specifically designing a game to BE one of those permutations. So really, assuming this is something that will be sold, it's just a gimmick. This is of course my uninformed internet opinion.

I said this on another forum:

My questions concerning 504 are based around wondering how a game containing 9 distinct modules interacting in endless combinations would possibly have depth on a specific level. If you are designing an area control system to bolt onto a dynamic series of additional systems, you have to make it pretty damn generic and flexible. When you gain flexibility like this usually you lose that special something that separates the game from its peers. I suppose you could argue that special something is the fact that there's 504 games, but that to me sounds like a gimmick that's entirely conceptual and not exactly interacted with. At least most gimmicks like Luchador's 3D ring, or Carcassonne's The Catapult are fun in an interactive silly way. 504's gimmick solely outputs a downstream result, but you're not actually touching the gimmick itself.

It's kind of like if you took a huge colorful slot machine that spit out a random game. Does the slot machine itself make the game you receive better?

I think there is a difference between a gimmick and an art project or experiment. This does not sound like a gimmick as I don't see it holding a lot of pop appeal, we're not talking about a dice bubble or a mouse trap here. The reservations that people are having are exactly what you would expect. I know that FF was a big fan of Eine gegen Eine which has similar issues. I think he's approached this more as an art piece than as a gimmick. Sure it probably won't have depth or a ton of replayability on a specific level.. but he's a designer and he's trying something new and challenging... that's kind of how I see this. It's interesting and I'd be very curious to see how he went about getting this accomplished.

If I were stranded on a desert island with three others, then I would take ____________ ?

504 sounds like the type of game that you could include in Earth's eventual Mission to Mars or for Deep Space Exploration where you'd need a variety of games to entertain your astronauts, but, you can only take one game because you're short on space and have weight-restrictions. This is interesting, to be sure, but, you'll likely have to supply your own themes, backstory, etc. If you have a good imagination, then it could work. I'd dig it, but, many gamers do need artwork, theme, and a backstory to make a game interesting enough to play it--the game design concepts alone aren't enough.

I think I already own a few copies of this game:

JonJacob wrote: I think there is a difference between a gimmick and an art project or experiment. This does not sound like a gimmick as I don't see it holding a lot of pop appeal, we're not talking about a dice bubble or a mouse trap here. The reservations that people are having are exactly what you would expect. I know that FF was a big fan of Eine gegen Eine which has similar issues. I think he's approached this more as an art piece than as a gimmick. Sure it probably won't have depth or a ton of replayability on a specific level.. but he's a designer and he's trying something new and challenging... that's kind of how I see this. It's interesting and I'd be very curious to see how he went about getting this accomplished.

This is how I see it as well. Again, some early reviews even point to the fact that the game they played was "really good" because of the modular nature, instead of great. But that if a game was to be designed by tweaking a permutation that it could itself be "great." All subjective, but it certainly seems like a cool design accomplishment and like stoic says, the first thing I thought of was "this fits into the 'if you could only take one game' scenario." Obviously it's jack of all trades, master of none - but as Shellhead points out jokingly, this could be the boardgame equivalent of the frigging deck of playing cards. That is staggering to me.

I agree with JJ. I think Friese is coming at this from more of an art project/experiment standpoint. While some people will insist that it's a gimmick, I'm more than happy to see something like this. Friese has always been sort of a wildcard/maverick designer with all his zany themes and games where he turns certain mechanics on their head. He has already created what many consider his masterpiece with Power Grid, so why not pursue something completely experimental? I would much rather see a prolific designer try to make this batshit insane design instead of resting on his laurels and pumping out the same thing over and over again. This is what Rosenberg and Feld are currently stuck doing. They're catering to the demands of the BGG/Heavy Eurogamer crowd and while it is working out great for them...it's really boring to see.

So I give FF kudos for trying something completely out of the box. It could tank and be a colossal dud or it could be pretty cool. Maybe game variation 101 or 320 are fun as all hell. Part of it will be experiencing what the game has to offer. I'm very much interested to see how this progresses. I expect it crash and burn. That being said, I'm glad the guy is shooting for the stars and with this totally outlandish idea.

"Those pieces aren't your military?"

"No, that was last game. Now they are farmers. Military is these guys over here now."

Fuck this.

The trend toward "smaller", "Micro", and "elegant" has utterly sullied the soul of the hobby.

Shit on this, and anything like it.

Yeah, originality is in short supply these days.... and not really wanted. Maybe there's another IP that no ones raped yet, why can't FF do that instead?

Perhaps Babylon 5 or Mad Max? I always wanted a good Mad Max game.

There's several "sort of" Mad Max type games, with Thunder Alley being the simplest and several miniature post-apoc games being the more complex.

JonJacob wrote: Perhaps Babylon 5 or Mad Max? I always wanted a good Mad Max game.

The Babylon 5 CCG is one of my most played games even though I haven't touched it in a decade. Would be perfectly suited for an LCG format too. Warner Brothers owns the licensing, iirc.

As for 504, I've determined its simply not the kind of game I've ever been interested in. One based solely on clever mechanics. It'll be a big hit on BGG though.

JonJacob wrote: Yeah, originality is in short supply these days.... and not really wanted.

Originality will always be high in supply...Unless the community's memory grows past the two year "Hotness" cycle.

Egg Shen wrote: I agree with JJ. I think Friese is coming at this from more of an art project/experiment standpoint.

If it is supposed to be an art type piece I'd rather have seen him put more teeth in it, make more of a statement and name it "Modern Game Design - The Game".