Chaos in the Old World - Nurgle

The other night I played Chaos in the Old World for the first time in a while. I was Nurgle, the only one of the chaos powers I hadn't played before. The whole time I was getting my ass kicked but I somehow managed to win. I picked the cultist upgrade that lets you summon each of them for free once. My Lepers crawled to the other side of the world and dropped one corruption token in the last region to be ruined, putting me two VP ahead of Khorne. I couldn't believe I pulled it off.

The whole time I thought Nurgle sucked, but if I won, he can't be that bad. Maybe he's just the hardest/least fun to play? Interestingly, two of the guys in my group who disliked this game before enjoyed it this time around. Both of them had only played Nurgle previously.

What about the Morrslieb cards? I have the expansion but never used them. Do they balance things out a bit more?

Nurgle is definitely the most difficult to play with the original card set because his avenue to dial ticks is so narrow (you can only use the Populous territories) and it takes him longer to get an upgrade on the dial than any other power. So you're behind the others from the get-go and it's easier for them to manipulate your Cultists than others. The new cards do help Nurgle quite a bit because they're more immediately useful than many in the original set.

I'm drunk and don't remember anything about any of the races but want to say this game fucking owns.

Jackwraith wrote: Nurgle is definitely the most difficult to play with the original card set because his avenue to dial ticks is so narrow (you can only use the Populous territories) and it takes him longer to get an upgrade on the dial than any other power. So you're behind the others from the get-go and it's easier for them to manipulate your Cultists than others. The new cards do help Nurgle quite a bit because they're more immediately useful than many in the original set.

My experience with this game is very limited--I've only played maybe 3 times, only as Nurgle, and won each time. It struck me then, and this thread kinda reinforces it a bit, that Nurgle requires either a very patient or cautious player as my wins were similar to the OP's story. The other factions are just far more *dynamic*, so it always seems like they're racing away from the very start. Yet, being less dynamic also means being less prone to big swings one way or the other.

That said, the guys playing the other factions in my games were also neighbors, and the guy playing Khorne is a "damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead and NOW YOU MUST BLEED FOR ME MOTHERFUCKER!" kind of gamer...so his focus was on beating the ever-living shit out of his neigbhor [and host for these games] while steamrolling me was a lower priority. That sort of situation kinda favors the unknown guy at the table with the "slow and steady" approach to things

hotseatgames wrote: I'm drunk and don't remember anything about any of the races but want to say this game fucking owns.

Now THAT is incisive F:AT analysis. <3

Nurgle is probably the best in the base game. He scores so many points on autopilot that if the other players don't know what' time it is he's just going to outscore Tzeentch and Slaneesh through being better at generating points, and end the game before Khorne can win by dial. However, just like Khorne who wins by default if unchecked, the game "works" because once players know this they adjust their play by not letting Nurgle get away with his gameplan.

The Morrslieb set actually weakens Nurgle relative to the other gods (he is no longer a contender for best or a primary default threat really).

I don't think you should seek to change the game because the balance problem may not actually exist in practice, but be the result of poor play.

I haven't played Chaos in the Old World that much, only twenty or so times, but my impression is that it takes four or five games and trying all the factions before someone can truly understand how each faction is supposed to play. And in this time, things vary wildy. At first Nurgle just spams cultists and wins, then Khorne feeds on him and becomes unstoppable only for everyone to learn how to move away from him the next game and so on.

Some recommendations for Nurgle:
1) The most important upgrade is the one that gives you 3VP when a region is ruined, because it's a 12 point swing half a of the time. Still, you'll get two upgrades over the course of the game and the "place 2 corruption tokens" upgrade for the fat dude is also quite great. Don't bother with the other one.
2) You have more cultists than anyone else, putting one or two of them where Slaanesh and Tzeench are is a good tactic: It gives you ruination points, it ruins the region earlier (forcing them to find another corner to camp), it forces them to play soldiers where they don't want to and it attracts Khorne.
3) Your goal is to get as many tokens on the table by the end of the game as possible, not to get them now. Try not to get your figurines killed, if Khorne is using his big unit to attack you and you alone, you are being too aggressive.
4) I have found no use for Nurgle's soldiers.

Nurgle is indeed the strongest in the base game (once everyone realizes how to avoid Khorne) and is in fact the weakest with the new expansion cards. The base game though is pretty strongly balanced and anyone can surely win.

Your post highlights the one flaw in this game though - the upgrade cards aren't really choices. There are clearly better options and that Nurgle upgrade you chose is a necessity.

charlest wrote: Your post highlights the one flaw in this game though - the upgrade cards aren't really choices. There are clearly better options and that Nurgle upgrade you chose is a necessity.

I think the game is very well-balanced but there's a lot of stuff in the game that is simply bad and is never used. It's not only upgrades, there are a lot of bad spell cards in the game that you are never going to use. And Nurgle won't even play soldiers, so yeah.

Malygris wrote: ...putting me two VP ahead of Khorne.

In what topsy-turvy world was Khorne winning on VPs? That's crazy.

Malygris wrote: The whole time I thought Nurgle sucked, but if I won, he can't be that bad.

As others have said, he's one of the strongest. Just camp the middle of the board and rake in the points. VPs start snowballing as more areas are ruined.

If Nurgle is the strongest, then you're not playing with very good players. If you camp the middle of the board, he should become target #1 for Khorne and be easily manipulated by Tzeentch and Slaanesh. Anyone who doesn't do those things isn't playing well, as Nurgle is easy prey in the early game. I've won with him, but he has the most static win condition of any of the four powers, since the rest of them can focus their strategy in different areas of the board based on the dispersal of tokens and units, while Nurgle is basically always stuck with the Populous territories to gain dial ticks AND to gain points (which is how he always wins), because those areas return the most VPs. Plus his first dial return is the weakest in the game, which basically means that no changes of worth happen until he achieves two dial ticks, unlike the other three. Give me the Perv (Slaanesh) any day.

I have only played a few games of Chaos in the Old World, so I still find myself somewhat bewildered about what I should be doing. I don't own the game, so I haven't had the luxury of studying the dials or looking through all the cards. I feel like there is a bit of a disconnect between theme and mechanics such that it is unclear what I want to do and how that is different from the other players. Except for Khorne. I've never played as Khorne, but it's very obvious how Khorne should play. When I have played Nurgle, Slaanesh or Tzeentch, the cards and abilities give me some clue as to what I should be doing, but it still feels vague. I don't dislike the idea of a game that reveals itself over time, but I feel like I always play at a disadvantage against the game owner because of the difference in familiarity, moreso than most other games.

Erik Twice wrote: 2) You have more cultists than anyone else, putting one or two of them where Slaanesh and Tzeench are is a good tactic

Tzeentch actually has more Cultists than Nurgle (8 vs 6)

Erik Twice wrote: 4) I have found no use for Nurgle's soldiers.

Nurgle's warriors are more useful than Tzeentch or Slaneesh's. Costing only 1 point makes them good at domination (kill contesting forces, contribute to domination) and just booting competitors from regions in general. In base game they're often the only non-Khorne warriors I see used.

Erik Twice wrote: I think the game is very well-balanced but there's a lot of stuff in the game that is simply bad and is never used. It's not only upgrades, there are a lot of bad spell cards in the game that you are never going to use.

Agreed. I think the expansion is better in that regard -- less useless cards, less useless units (warriors and greater Daemons), less useless Upgrades, and domination matters more VS ruination. The flipside is it widened the gap between races more than the base game though, and dial VS VP is more lopsided in expansion (points reign supreme)

charlest wrote: Nurgle is...in fact the weakest with the new expansion cards.

I really think Slaneesh is weakest in expansion. Maybe Rat, not sure about him yet, but I really don't think it's Nurgle. I know it's common to hate on expansion Nurgle, but at this point I've played the expansion way more than most people and Nurgle's not doing too shabby.

I've played about a dozen times over the last year and have 3-4 games with the Horned Rat and agree with most of the above. Base game I thought Nurgle was pretty damn strong even though he has static targets. Nurgle has the cheapest warriors to make Khorne pay for dial ticks and to help beef up domination scoring. The regions Nurgle goes for are normally the highest scoring regions in the game. Some of Nurgle's cards really lock down regions by either buffing up his defense or inflicting kills on enemies based on his current corruption. And even though he will never win in dial ticks he still needs to trigger that first upgrade before regions start falling. I do feel like in the base game each faction has an upgrade they should choose 95% of the time. For Nurgle definitely the 3VP per ruined region, it sneaks up on everyone once the mid game hits and all of a sudden Nurgle is at 40 points. The cultist placement for free upgrade is fun and lets you delay most rounds but 3VP for every region, including those that you have nothing in, is fantastic.

Both the base game and expansion I really dislike playing as Slaanesh, the purple faction. I don't like many of the cards they have even though I think Slaanesh is one of the stronger factions in the base game through the use of his 2 hit cultist upgrade and noble placement/domination tactics.

It is absolutely a game that someone more familiar with each factions cards has the knowledge to make better moves. My problem is whenever I have to teach someone new the game they end up feeding Khorne the win eventually unless I tell them how to play. For a 2 hour game it is fairly difficult to come up with an effective strategy in game 1 or 2 unless you are Khorne.

I appreciate everyone sharing all their opinions, even though a lot of them are contradictory. I'm not really sure what to take away from this - other than I should play the game a shitload more times!