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Let's Talk: Fantasy Games Combat Systems

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26 Jul 2015 21:56 #207090 by mikecl

Dr. Mabuse wrote:

Gary Sax wrote: An interesting one is Magic Realm. No one has really ever run with the fundamental genius of the speed/heaviness movement chits as health/attacks and streamlined it. If it were less overhead, I think a version of that system could be my favorite fantasy battle system. It creates distinctions between fighting styles extremely well.

Yeah, I still couldn't full grasp it. When I thought I understood it I would conduct combat using the digital version (can't remember it name right now) and get different results than what I thought I would. Traded it off for Star Wars Epic Duels as it would see far more play with the Nephew than Magic Realm.


Geez Doc. What a shame. Didn't we have a teaching game scheduled at one point? Man, I wished you'd hung on to it. I can play it pretty much without referencing the rules, having played it so much over the years and I definitely would have taught it to you. Gary is right though, it has one of the best fantasy combat systems around.

The character chits have a strength letter and a speed number. If you undercut your opponent on speed you inflict the strength of the weapon on him. If that strength meets the opponent's weight/vulnerability (which can be shielded with armour) he's dead. The strength letter also denotes the weight of the weapon a character can carry so a swordsman with only Fight L counters can only carry light weapons, but the White Knight with T (Tremendous) fight counters can carry any weapon.

Move counters also have strength letters and you can't carry items that exceed their weight. On top of that character chits (you have 12) can fatigue in battle, meaning you used to be able to wield that sword at the beginning of the fight, but are now too fatigued to swing it and have to switch out to something lighter. Weapons also hit first on their length in the first round of combat, then in subsequent rounds on their speed. The system is simple, thematic and fun.

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26 Jul 2015 23:27 #207095 by dysjunct
This is clearly not anything that is going to have an absolute answer. It will depend on how central combat is to the game and how it's implemented.

I love the combat in Cyclades because it's simple and perfect for the game. The game is about supplications to the gods, so a more complex combat system would detract from that central theme.

I also love the combat in Blade of the Iron Throne because it's insanely complex but in a way that reinforces the themes of the game .

And I love the combat in old D&D because it's the right mix for that game: chaotic enough to be terrifying and incentivize you to avoid it, tactical enough to be able to outsmart the opposition if you work it hard enough.
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27 Jul 2015 11:04 #207129 by Green Lantern

Hex Sinister wrote: I think the HeroScape combat is pretty great (along with the other games that use variants of that system like Gears of War and X-wing). Attack dice vs. defense joined with easy to grok but varied powers for characters/units that enhance gameplay. It's a little tired by now but it's simple and intuitive and it just works.


Want to give some props here for HeroQuest. I'm not sure if it was the first to implement this system but it was the first for me, and I agree with Hex Sinster, it's simple with the right amount of variation.

Spartacus has a fun and brutal combat system that requires a decent amount of tactical thinking, especially when you throw in all the different gladiators with various training in weapons and armor. It's simple as well in that it's essentially a Risk variant where you compare d6 totals and wounds reduce the number of dice you get to roll next round. Thematic and elegant in that your gladiator starts off strong but as the fight progresses they get weaker and the player in control has to decide on reducing speed, defense, or attack.

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27 Jul 2015 11:46 #207144 by Shellhead
Some of my friends consider the combat system for Spartacus to be the weakest part of the game, but they are daft. That combat system is just right for the overall game. A simpler system wouldn't have offered as many different special abilities for gladiators and weapons, and a more complex system would have made the game run too long.

I agree that there is no ideal combat system that can serve as a standard for every game. There are always going to be trade-offs between simulation and playability, and the balance between the two should be determined by the how combat fits into the overall game. If Spartacus didn't have the take-that cards and the auctions, then the combat system would need to offer more in order to fill out the game.

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28 Jul 2015 09:54 #207271 by Gary Sax

Shellhead wrote: Some of my friends consider the combat system for Spartacus to be the weakest part of the game, but they are daft. That combat system is just right for the overall game. A simpler system wouldn't have offered as many different special abilities for gladiators and weapons, and a more complex system would have made the game run too long.

I agree that there is no ideal combat system that can serve as a standard for every game. There are always going to be trade-offs between simulation and playability, and the balance between the two should be determined by the how combat fits into the overall game. If Spartacus didn't have the take-that cards and the auctions, then the combat system would need to offer more in order to fill out the game.


I think the Spartacus system works for the game it's in. I do wonder if it's too harsh on wounded gladiators for less bloody system use in a fantasyish game. It creates a serious death spiral (literally) for gladiators.

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28 Jul 2015 10:07 #207273 by Egg Shen
I've always been partial to the combat in HeroQuest. Very basic combat resolution, but it is quick, clean and satisfying.

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28 Jul 2015 13:11 - 28 Jul 2015 13:47 #207301 by Mr. White
A lot of my favorites have already been mentioned.

TITAN - it amazes me that so much depth is wrought from so few stats.
HeroQuest/HeroScape/BloodBowl - I like dice with simple iconography. Complex die faces that have different symbols doing different things on the same die side (such as Descent) don't usually excite me.

One combat system I haven't seen mentioned is the way the d100 is used in WFRP proper. Roll d100 to hit, then flip the numbers to see where you hit. Simple.
Last edit: 28 Jul 2015 13:47 by Mr. White.

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28 Jul 2015 13:49 #207303 by Gary Sax
Oh man, I forgot the d100 WFRPG one from the early editions That's a good one.

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28 Jul 2015 13:52 #207304 by charlest
I prefer dice with special symbols or card based combat systems. The Runewars deck is neat, especially its double-use, but it is a bit fiddly reshuffling and looking through the discard pile.

Even though it's not fantasy I really enjoy the Forbidden Stars combat system of roll a dice pool, then have three rounds of simultaneously card selection with three rounds of damage dealing. It has a lot of subtleties and tension with timing and counteracting your opponents, and it ramps up nicely into the third card.

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28 Jul 2015 14:59 #207314 by Stonecutter
I've said this before, and neither of these games are fantasy titles, but my favorite dice based combat systems are Clash of Cultures and Merchants and Marauders.

They're the only games I know of where every pip rolled on a die matters beyond just "who rolled higher" or "who rolled higher plus a modifier." A 5 is better than a 4 is better than a 3. It's such a simple change but it makes so much sense to me thematically.

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28 Jul 2015 15:45 #207316 by Sagrilarus
Let me know when we can start discussing Nexus Ops in this thread.
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28 Jul 2015 16:07 #207319 by quozl

Sagrilarus wrote: Let me know when we can start discussing Nexus Ops in this thread.


Easier to ask forgiveness, right?

I love how Nexus Ops has an order of combat with the most powerful units rolling first so that if you take casualties you have to decide whether to forgo trying to hit with a lesser unit or to take one of your better units out.

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28 Jul 2015 16:17 #207321 by ChristopherMD
quozl has been banned.

Sagrilarus, you're on thin ice.
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28 Jul 2015 16:31 #207322 by southernman

Mr. White wrote: One combat system I haven't seen mentioned is the way the d100 is used in WFRP proper. Roll d100 to hit, then flip the numbers to see where you hit. Simple.


I was just talking to a couple of board gaming mates who do a lot of RPGing about this in the weekend, they have just started a 2nd Ed campaign and the only time i tried any group rpg stuff (for a few weeks about 5 years ago just to be social) it was that and that's just what I said to him of what I remembered about it - d100 to hit then use to find where hit, simple but clever.

I liked the card combat in Middle Earth Quest, Runewars, and FFGs Warrior Knights even though I'm a dice guy.

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28 Jul 2015 17:15 #207323 by Shellhead
Though it's a CCG instead of a boardgame, I really liked the combat system in Jyhad, aka Vampire: the Eternal Struggle. Complicated but nicely thematic. The default is easy: two vampires walk up to each other and slap each other for one point of damage and then the combat ends. But depending on cards play, there can be maneuvering to determine if the combat at close range, possibly even a grapple that prohibits use of weapons. You might break your opponent's weapon or steal it. the combat could potentially go on for several rounds, and could even end in a decapitation. Opponents might be anything from regular humans to werewolves or even ghosts. You might use a magic spell or a chainsaw or even a rocket launcher.
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