Novel idea for a game?

So, I'm thinking about designing a "novel board game" that literally constructs the final chapters of a story. The idea is that the game box would include: 1) about 200 or so pages of a fantasy novel that builds to a major point in the story, 2) a mechanics rule book that explains how to play out the remainder of the story as a game, 3) the physical parts of the game. The idea is that the players would read the novel portion and then resolve the events in the game to "write" the end of the novel. There would likely be elements of board game and RPG both (I'm thinking boards and tokens as well as maps and markers), the ability to write different endings, and various ways to let players play cooperatively as the protagonists or competitively as different factions. I'm curious as to people's thoughts about such an approach and whether they would have any interest in such an experience.

It would never sell well, because of a wide variety of things:
1. It's been done better in games like Tales of the Arabian Nights, without the requirement to have 4 people read 200 pages of a novel that may, in fact, be shit.
2. Not everyone likes fantasy.
3. Not everyone has that kind of time.

It's a novel idea, true, but is it saleable or in demand? I couldn't see it being so. Sorry to piss in your cheerios.

Thanks for your input! I greatly value your experience and perspective. I would like to make a couple of points:

SuperflyTNT wrote: 1. It's been done better in games like Tales of the Arabian Nights, without the requirement to have 4 people read 200 pages of a novel that may, in fact, be shit.

I'll agree something similar has been done in ToAN. I think its unreasonable to say "better" without a direct comparison. I will agree it was done very well. That said, familiarity with the subject matter did itself require a great deal of reading -- the collection of stories is well over 300 pages as I recall. And I firmly agree with you that the novel part must be exceptionally well-executed and compelling to read. Without that, there is no point in even entertaining the idea of this project.

SuperflyTNT wrote: 2. Not everyone likes fantasy.

Very true. But they would self-select out of the market and never even consider such a game.

SuperflyTNT wrote: 3. Not everyone has that kind of time.

Absolutely true. They would also self-select out of the market. However, there are also many players that seek deep story and theme in their games. I suspect this would appeal to them. I'm not talking about a huge market -- maybe a few thousand world-wide.

And don't worry about pissing in my cheerios -- I wouldn't have posted the question here if I wasn't interested in and prepared for honest dialog.

If you were, say, Timothy Zahn or someone who had an existing IP or existing fanbase, then maybe this would have legs.

I see some impracticality here:
- Either 4 people have to have the novel (800 pages of bound printing is a LOT of money), or it has to be an e-book. If it's an e-book, then that means that it has to be on several platforms, and you have to assume that the people will own the platforms and be willing to read 200 pages on them.
- I submit that "better" does qualify with regard to Tales because it doesn't require the players to read 200 pages each, then come together at a later date to build the end of the story; rather, the story evolves in small chunks in-game, meaning if I buy Tales, I can play NOW, but if I buy Game X, I have to wait until myself ~and my friends~ all read and digest the story well enough to form a reasonable idea on an ending. So, in other words, they get to play much later. That's substantially better.

With your self-selecting out of the market, you're taking out:
- People that don't like to read novels.
- People that don't like fantasy (and/or just fantasy novels)
- People that want to play the game the same week (or month) that they buy the game.
- People that don't like storytelling games.
- People that don't like e-books
...- or people that don't want to spend 50$ on a book/game (assuming 4 pages per sheet, $0.08 per sheet printing, $0.40 bindery)
- Pretty much every mainly Euro-gamer.

I get that this is a niche project idea. It's really a matter of market forces - if you think there's a market, go for it. You'll spend 500$ on marketing and countless hours creating the project. Probably need to pay an artist too. Then you Kickstartie-Gogo it, and see if there's a market.

I'd skip the novel altogether and go straight for the game concept. When players build the end of a story they are simultaneously creating the beginning. Like if the barbarian successfully rescues the king's wayward daughter then obviously the king hired him to do that earlier.

Instead of doing 200 pages of story, maybe you could go with cards, where each card has a chapter name and a one-sentence description of what happens in that chapter.

Some games you might look into for various implementations of an idea along these lines:

1. Android. Each of the five player characters has three different storylines, which are all broken up into two decks of cards (light and dark) and a few pivotal plot points. The twist is that the player of the character is only choosing the good things that happen in the character's story, while the opposing players can opportunistically play the bad things that happen in the story.

2. Slasher: the Final Cut. On your turn, you play a scene card, then going around the table, everybody has a chance to play a plot twist that modifies the scene. The original scene might be "The slasher chops at Jack with an axe." But after several plot twist cards are played, the outcome might be "The slasher tries to hit Jack with an axe, but Ted tried to be a brash hero and got hit instead. Also, the pizza guy showed up, and in the ensuing confusion, Diane also got hit by the axe."

3. Pantheon. Weird experimental game requiring only a scenario and a bunch of poker chips. The scenario describes the situation, and then each player writes a sentence of the story. Other players can spend poker chips to try to redirect the sentence. The high bidder gets to change one word in the sentence.

4. Arkham Horror. With all of the expansions, you effectively have a big story that has been diced up into card-sized installments. The story that emerges from gameplay may not make a lot of objective sense, but part of the fun is enjoying the coincidences and trying to rationalize a story from the various encounter cards.

My random thought is that I can see some sort of card layout tableau as the story. When a certain event happens in the game, a card gets locked into that part of the story.
Even better if the cards are self-made or something. There was that RPG a few of us tried awhile ago where you would draw on a piece of paper important landmarks or whatever that were part of your community.

Sounds cool, I agree the book has to be pretty good for this to be even possible.

I think Pete's got the heart of this. You won't get folks to read your book to play the game. You could instead --tell-- them they have read it and (leveraging some out of copyright IP like Count of Monte Cristo or whatever) use the generic arc of that that story to kick off your game. Maybe folks are assigned roles like "feminist critique" or "post-modernist" and have to try to guide the end to a conclusion that aligns with their in-game ethos.

I think it's a neat idea but I'm not going to get everyone who wants to play it in my group to read 200 pages before we play. They jus won't do it. The owner of the game would, of course, but beyond that I'm not sure.

I think if you can create a game that effectively tells the end of a story you've setup in no more than half a page of text, then that's a good place to start. I can see the value in your suggestion, but I think you need to begin with the game.

And I also recommend taking a look at Android or maybe Lord of the Rings: The Living Card game. Some of the scenarios for the latter have a very nice sense of narrative.

Thanks for all the input, folks. I appreciate your insights and candor! I've got a lot to think about.

Have you ever played Mice & Mystics? That game does a good job of telling a "fantasy novel" type of story. You're supposed to read the backstory prior to playing the first scenario, but it's only 3 or 4 pages, so it's pretty manageable. Unfortunately, this material isn't very well-written, and it's bog-standard fantasy stuff about a prince and an evil sorceress. I think there's an opportunity there to tell a good, unqiue story, but as others have noted ... nobody is going to read 200 pages of what is essentially "fluff."

Just a thought, but what if you streamline the story setup into just a couple of key elements? Every story boils down to Character, Setting, and Conflict, right? What if you do a Mad Libs style setup where the players randomly choose their Characters, a Location, and a Villain. Sentinels of the Multiverse does something similar, now that I think about it. In that game, you start by choosing heroes, a villian, and an environment. It's actually a very fun way to start a game. However, Sentinels is too mechanical and mathy to give you much of a narrative. I think you could borrow that concept, and use it to better effect.

For example, imagine starting the game by filling out the following:

[Character 1] and [Character 2] cautiously approach the [Location]. A sense of forbidding doom lay over the area. [Character 1] recalled hearing rumors of a [Villain] dwelling within. He squared his shoulders and mustered his courage. If they were to successfully [Quest goal], they'd need to venture forth. "Come," he said. "Adventure awaits ..."

I just saw that Jim Felli posted this and wondered why I didn't respond! But then I remembered I have a PM from him that I didn't respond to either. /lazy /rude

Anyway, this is a bold idea, but it's one that doesn't work for me either. The concept is interesting because it calls to mind this "alchemical" concept of gaming that I came up with a few years ago, which posits that the players create "gold" from the base materials/reagents provided by the designer in the form of rules and components. So the players would effectively internalize the extended fiction and then finish the work through gameplay.

I think Joebot is on to an idea that would make this work, but I would modify it somewhat. Instead of having a novella that serves at the first and second acts, you could instead use card drafting, random tables, bidding or some other mechanic to instead build a procedurally generated stories with cards. If-then logic would determine certain story aspects/inclusions. So kind of a Mad Libs sort of deal, I suppose.

There's another cool idea in here though...what about this kind of game, but it's ONLY the last act? Typically in fantasy games, there's it's all about the quest, the build-up, the lead-up to the final conflict. But what about a game that is ONLY that final conflict?

Legends of Andor handles narrative in a pretty interesting way with the "Legend" cards, very strongly narrative and the fiction is a central part of the story...it limits certain aspects of the design, but it also tells a very specific story each game.

I think you'd want to swap the balance of what establishes the story (the book) and what finishes the story (the game).

Psycho Raiders does something similar, except it sets the stage with something like a 4-6 page comic rather than a 200 page novel. That works much better for me and the people I play with. Someone else mentioned Mice & Mystics. That's another example of getting the balance right (though even that narrative was a little lengthy for me). Gumshoe is another example.

Neat idea, though. *thumbs up* for the concept.