Let's Talk DUNGEON CRAWLERS

Oh, I really, really like Warhammer Quest: Adventure Card Game, I'm concerned the licensing may be an issue with the new Silver Tower game, FFG has been mum on any expansions (as far as I know).

After looking at Dungeon Saga, I think I will need to pick that up. The make your own Heroes/Overlord in the expansion is pretty cool.

Squigherder wrote: I see it mentioned above, and I don't see what the big problem is with the mechanism of comparing dice from largest to smallest.....you;re allowed to not like it of course, but it works ok.

Unless it's a dice allocation thingy, I'd like to be able to read the result of dice chucking almost instantly. That's what brought Okko down a peg for me.

The only real big negative I've encountered playing Dungeon Saga is that since if one player dies the players lose,it almost always makes sense to go after the wizard.

It gets a little old for the wizard player to be targeted most every scenario.

Huh, I always thought that Arcadia Quest was a small-box crawl - something like Masquerade , maybe. Looks like I was as wrong as wrong can be.

I'd love to play AQ at WBC this summer. (New location!) Any AQ-owners intending on going? I'll teach you to play Ring-o Flamingo as payment, if that works.

My only concern about Arcadia Quest is the PvP bit. Is it Ok? All PvP ever does in fantasy quest games is (a) lengthen the game and (b) encourage early winners to beat up on (and steal from) the early losers. Rich getting richer, etc. We routinely ignore PvP rules in Prophecy, Runebound 2nd ed, etc. We just don't use them.

(I'm not trying to derail the thread into quest games, as they're definitely different than dungeoncrawlers. Just looking for PvP clarification.)

I don't consider Arcadia Quest a dungeon crawl at all, but I will say that the one night I played, I thought it was a lot of fun. I've been wanting to revisit it, but I'm drowning under too many possible games to play.

Regarding the Dungeon Crawlers mentioned so far in this thread, I own the all of the DDASB games, Heroquest, Dragon Strike, and Gears of War with expansion. I haven't even come close to exhausting the possibilities of the DDASB games. I haven't even added in the figures from Dungeon Command and I haven't added any fan-made scenarios, monsters, and heroes. My larder is very full in this category and I haven't really felt the need to replenish it.

So far though, among the Dungeon Crawlers mentioned in this thread that intrigue me the most are The Undercity: An Iron Kingdoms Adventure Board Game, Descent 2.0 with the new Road to Legend expansion/App, and, finally, the unobtainable Heroquest expansions, Advanced Heroquest expansions.

For some reason, Undercity really strikes a cord with me and I like the artwork (except the game board) and the miniatures.

For dungeon crawling, there's nothing better than an RPG.

Can someone please explain to me the allure of the D and D board games (Ravenloft /temple/etc) ?

I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm really thinking me and my friend played the game horribly wrong or something, because we both equally wanted to like Ravenloft, and both equally disliked it - It basicall seemed to come down to flip a tile every turn and the monster goes on it and the monster closes and attacks you. If you don't flip a tile grab an encounter card, that will most likely put another monster on the board. and positioning is largely irrelevant because monsters move a tile at a time. Is there more to it than that?

Arcadia Quest is as much of a dungeon crawler as Descent 2.0 is. The game just happens to take place in a city instead of underground. It has loot to grab, enemies to kill, a storyline to follow, upgrades to heroes, items to purchase and more. The PvP stuff works perfectly because each scenario that you set up has a few PvE goals to accomplish. This might be killing a Minotaur or going to a spot on the board and accomplishing something. The other goals are always PvP which requires you to kill another player's hero. However, once you kill their hero and earn a point there is no further incentive to attack that player. You can get no more points that way. Based on the amount of players, the first person to accomplish a couple of these PvE and PvP goals wins the scenario. All the while you want to collect as much money as possible and kill as many enemies so you can buy new stuff between scenarios. The best part is that the campaign is only 6 quests long and can easily be finished in a weekend. It's really well made game that is just FUN. I love it.

In regards to Undercity, I ultimately decided not to purchase this one because it looks like it's not going to get any support from Privateer Press. With a release like this you need to have expansions ready to go to keep people invested in the game. Instead of supporting this game they went ahead and kickstarter a new fantasy co-op game. As it stands, Undercity looks like a one and done product. I like the look and the mechanics of the game. If I ever find it cheap enough I might give it a go.

Matt Thrower wrote an excellent of Dungeon Saga review for the Fort and I came close to buying it. The throwback to a more classic style dungeon crawler was very appealing to me. When it became available to purchase I heard there were issues with the rules and errors abound. It scared me off from purchasing it. I'm glad to hear that those issues don't seem to be a real problem. However, this genre is so damn crowded that I've become pretty picky about what I purchase. I can't see myself diving into this instead of say, the new Warhammer Quest.

I don't believe the IP is an issue with FFG and Warhammer Quest: Adventure Card Game. Somewhere last winter I read an interview with FFG and they were talking about their recently released games, (Runebound, Fury of Dracula, WHQACG). They were responding to the lack of stock of WHQACG and how it was impossible to find the game for a while. Basically, from what I remember, they were sort of blindsided by the success of the game. Runebound and FoD were sitting on shelves and this card game couldn't get printed fast enough to meet demand. So I think maybe they didn't have any expansions lined up because they figured they would launch it and see how it performed. My gut tells me that there probably scrambling to release content for it as we speak. At least that's what I hoping. I would be shocked if nothing was announced at Gencon.

Going back to Mansions of Madness for a second...if any game could benefit from the removal of the overlord it would certainly be that game. I'm not sure how setup would be done...again it might have to be more like the stories in the big box expansion. Regardless, I'd love for them to figure it out and release the game in a new 2.0 addition that utilized an app. If they went with the app route, they could actually make it like Descent RtL where you just explore the mansion room by room...no need to set it up beforehand. The app would trigger enemies, events, and give you hints as to where to search. There are too many great ideas in the game for it to completely disappear.

Egg Shen wrote: Matt Thrower wrote an excellent of Dungeon Saga review for the Fort and I came close to buying it. The throwback to a more classic style dungeon crawler was very appealing to me. When it became available to purchase I heard there were issues with the rules and errors abound. It scared me off from purchasing it. I'm glad to hear that those issues don't seem to be a real problem. However, this genre is so damn crowded that I've become pretty picky about what I purchase. I can't see myself diving into this instead of say, the new Warhammer Quest.

The throwback in setting, but with updated game design is exactly why I want DS. I'm not super keen on the tiles or the small font on the cards (tiny!), but i think all in all it's the closest to AHQ...which cost about 6x the amount...out there. Plus, those KoW minis are so cheap using the AC book rules to brew up my own dungeons and scenarios will be a hoot.

Hey, did that '25th Anniversary Heroquest' thing ever materialize?

Mr. White wrote: EDIT: Mice & Mystics...is it really that good? full co-op or one vs many? I don't recall. Good replay-ability or does a group only play through the story once? Are there enough enemies? In print? Minis look fun to paint, but for light fantasy adventuring I was considering Lone Wolf Adventure Game. Should I look at M&M if I were to ever go in this direction? Maybe I should start a Let's Talk thread...

Full coop. The game doesn't have any kind of random mission generator; everything's in the story book(s). The rules are simple-ish, the campaign system isn't particularly advanced, and the writing is a little bit cheesy at times. The game timer mechanic is this cheese wheel thing that fills up do to certain attack results and causes bad things to happen, but you typically have to attack to advance in the missions. If I recall correctly Barnes wasn't a fan of this mechanic in his review, and you can game it a little. I like the mechanic fine because Mice & Mystics is story-focused and not the type of game where need to or should be trying to twist every little edge out of the rules to win.

Replayability is solid. The stories don't change but they do offer branching paths and random events so the goals you managed to accomplish on one play through may not be the same that you accomplish on another play through, and the things you face will change as well. We've played the main campaign three times now, have played some one-off missions from the campaign here and there, and are just starting to get into the expansion material which also looks fantastic. The reason it gets so much play around here is that it's a proper adventure style dungeon crawl. We play games back-to-back not because we think we can puzzle something out more efficiently, but either because we failed and want to try a different tactic or because we won and want to continue taking part in the story.

I wouldn't recommend M&M over an RPG like Lone Wolf Adventure Game or vice-versa. That comes down to whether you want to play along with the story or create your own.

Yeah, I didn't like the cheese wheel. It felt like a really artificial way to time the game. But it has a great sense of setting and story.

I was supposed to get a review copy of Dungeon Saga, but it never showed up. I'm going to hit them up again and see if they'll still send one. It looks pretty neat, I like how it has a 1980s kind of vibe to the style. And anytime a game comes in an odd-sized box that looks like a book, I'm automatically interested.

I believe there is one expansion on the way for Undercity, Blackwater Irregulars or something like that. It's a really good one, I had a good time with it when I had it. But it's another that just sort of struggles for attention amongst many others. If you like the IK setting, it is a must have and I would actually recommend it over some of the other titles mentioned here. Don't let the board scare you off- it works differently than other games. It is an area to area thing, and you build the map on a board using wall/door/feature tiles. There are no corridor puzzle pieces or anything like that, everything happens on one board. It is not, as some have surmised, just a big empty space.

Going back to Mansions of Madness for a second...if any game could benefit from the removal of the overlord it would certainly be that game. I'm not sure how setup would be done...again it might have to be more like the stories in the big box expansion. Regardless, I'd love for them to figure it out and release the game in a new 2.0 addition that utilized an app. If they went with the app route, they could actually make it like Descent RtL where you just explore the mansion room by room...no need to set it up beforehand. The app would trigger enemies, events, and give you hints as to where to search. There are too many great ideas in the game for it to completely disappear.

Mansions of Madness is the game I would say would most benefit from an app.

Me memory is that the cumbersome mechanics were put in place to create a sense of tension and uncertainty in the scenario and letting software handle that would really streamline the process and undercut some the meta gaming that rewarded the investigators for trying to out play the system rather than solve the scenario.

Plus, the puzzle mini game would probably work better on a touch screen than as a component.

When I get really day dreamy I imagine all kinds of ways an app could be used to enhance the experience.
- It could play music or creepy sounds to enhance the atmosphere.
- Players could get messages on their own devices that they might not be able to share with the other investigators, everything from "you have gone insane and are now secretly working with the monsters" to "you hear a noise on the other side of the door, it sounds like growling, do not warn anyone until it is your turn."

Not every game would benefit from multi media (most probably wouldn't) but horror seems like a good fit.

Wow, yeah...that puzzle mechanic would be BRILLIANT as an app...it would never have to be the same solution and there's a lot more you could do with it. Think about puzzles like in The Room, but with a physical board game around them.