Scythe

Is definitely not an eyesore...so refreshing after Last Stand to see a game that is actually quite beautiful. Some of the best and most singular illustrations I've ever seen in a game.

I just got it so I can't comment on gameplay yet, but I am curious why it's gotten sort of mixed notices from you people. It looks and sounds awesome, but one of the notes Jamey put in there really grabbed me- he mentions that some players might be surprised that it's not an all out mech warfare game, but he states that the THEME of the game is where agriculuture and warfare meet. Which is ask expressed in the title. I think that's awesome, that he is acknowledging the THEME of the game as something distinct from the setting or player expectations.

So, does it express this?

Another thing I'm really impressed with is what he says about the adventure cards...that there's no flavor text explaining what is going on, just an image and three possible choices that could occur in what is shown. That's really cool.

Anyway, I had kind of waned in my excitement for this one, now I'm fired up again. I'm hoping for a farming/building economic game with limited but impactful battles and some light adventure. Trying to get a couple of folks over tonight for it.

I think it 100% does express its theme .

The duality of Power vs. Popularity gives the game its distinct feel. Everything seems to have something else tugging in the opposite direction and creating difficult choices. Spam population and raise up a bunch of Farmers and you need to pay Power and Popularity to Produce to maintain your organization.

Interestingly enough, the Upgrade system seems to loosen the slack as it offers benefits and reduces costs, letting you rapidly accelerate and build your engine.

It's very Euro, but it's had enough conflict and interest in each of my five plays thus far to be very rewarding.

You put this in the wrong forum. Should be in "Euro Point Salad Bullshit".

I just got it yesterday and will hopefully play a solo game today and a 4p game on Thursday. But my first impression was like Barnes', where having played Defenders of the Last Stand several times recently, this is just so far beyond that in every appreciable respect as far as design and artwork and minis. It's probably not a completely fair comparison, as Scythe got much more development money, but then again, both games showed what they were going to offer in that respect, so Scythe got what it deserved. I *love* those encounter cards, where it's just the picture and instead of being an event where something happens, there are multiple options and it's more about how you intend to interact with what's occurring.

I've actually seen people complaining about the adventure cards - "seems like the story is missing", "We can't read them to the table". WTF, this is why we can't have nice things. I guess some people don't get that SHOWING can be more powerful and evocative than TELLING.

I've been disappointed with the game so far, at least at the 2 and 3 player counts. Few things I don't like about it:

- each session has felt pretty much the same (not very dynamic...)
- the ongoing benefits of Enlist are pretty stupid and I'd rather not have to keep track of them
- turns move very quickly but the game doesn't have much drama or build-up... you play until it's (fairly suddenly) done
- it reminds me of a Stefan Feld kind of design, which isn't my kind of game

I can see it being more interesting with 4 or 5 players, though, so that there's more competition for hexes / resources, so I'm not ready to write it off. But I definitely don't see this one staying on my shelf permanently.

I found it to be a somewhat average euro with nothing really new brought to the table, and it seemed to drag on a tad longer than it kept my attention. Wasn't a bad game, wasn't a great game...was an OK game. I bought the retail version, as I thought it was worth having, but totally not worth the price for all the chrome.

I'm sure this game is great, since a lot of people I know are all up on it. But I still have that weariness some folks were talking about with Cry Havoc. It looks cool and all, but it's another asymmetrical game with nice minis that is kind of euro, kind of AT. There's Blood Rage, Cry Havoc, this. I feels like these games are coming out too quickly for me to care much anymore.

I'll probably get around to it eventually, and I even expect to like it, but for the time being I'm kind of ambivalent.

Grudunza wrote: It's probably not a completely fair comparison, as Scythe got much more development money, but then again, both games showed what they were going to offer in that respect, so Scythe got what it deserved.

Absolutely. Knowledge of graphic design and having aesthetic taste that extends beyond cliche hobby material can go a very long way, even when funding is lower. Look at most of Ryan Laukat's stuff, for example.

san il defanso wrote: It looks cool and all, but it's another asymmetrical game with nice minis that is kind of euro, kind of AT. There's Blood Rage, Cry Havoc, this.

It's like 95% Euro and 5% AT. Its setting and aesthetics, and the fact that there's combat, give the impression that it's more of a hybrid than it actually is.

I've played twice, both with the full five players. I liked it quite a bit the first time, a little less the second.

-I love the lack of text on the adventure cards, and I like the way the choices can be difficult or easy based on your immediate situation.
-I love how the upgrades simultaneously make one action better and another action cheaper. That's clever design.
-I hate the fiddliness of keeping track of your neighbors' actions after you Enlist (also kinda the stars, coins, and player mats, but to a much lesser degree).
-I hate that the game takes as long as it does. I feel like there are some artificial barriers imposed in the beginning of the game to prevent players from attacking too soon. If all but one faction can only get two stars from winning an attack, I think I should be able to make that choice whenever I want, not only after everyone is developed.

The production is great and the game has some neat ideas in it. I sometimes notice the resource engine/point salad feel (which I hate), but it's not overwhelming enough to detract from my enjoyment otherwise (so far). The brisk individual turns do a great job of keeping the players involved and the game moving.

That is exactly it, Frohike. You can look at the best-looking games on your shelf and every single one of them that stands out as looking truly great is most likely the result of GOOD TASTE and INFLUENCES OUTSIDE OF GENRE ILLUSTRATION. It isn't expensive to make a great-looking game. You just have to pick graphic designers, layout folks, and illustrators that have those two things. It blows my mind that people don't see how garish and gaudy something like Defenders of the Last Stand is in comparison to even more baroque, over the top stuff like the 40k art.

The guy that painted all of the Scythe stuff, you can see a lot of influences going on which of course include stuff like Battletech...but there is also a more fine art oriented approach that really pays off in creating a specific atmosphere that really doesn't exist anywhere outside of that game. But think about if the miniatures had been Last Stand quality, and were all in bright-ass primary colors on top of the look and feel of the rest of it...those are the kinds of shitty decisions that sink the look of so many games.

Seriously, if your game looks like a Palladium RPG book cover circa 1995, it's time to study up on 21st century trends in illustration, painting and graphic design.

Anyway, it's pretty clear even without having played it that Scythe is something like the new Eclipse...a game that the AT dogmatists have no love for, that tips the hybridization meter more toward Euro and that floats between elation and disappointment.

Scythe is NOTHING like Eclipse. It's a straight-up spreadsheet game with some area control tossed in. It's moving a cube from one place on your spreadsheet (literally, tell me the player boards do NOT look like a spreadsheet...) to another. To do that, you move your workers. To make the workers produce, you have to take an action that you can't take 2 times in a row.

It's a spreadsheet game. A gorgeous one, granted, but nonetheless a spreadsheet game.

I played it another time and liked it better, playing it with some nasty, nasty players who would fight just to fight. I ended up destroying them (Red again) by just sitting on the center factory and tripling up on dudes on key resources. Charlie was right - you have to pick your 6 things to go for and ignore the rest to win. Still, not a great game. I'd rank it a solid 7 with a solid gold production.

Just finished a solo game and liked it quite a bit. I probably got something wrong about how the Automa moves, though. That is super confusing. Yeah, it's a relatively straightforward Euro with some positioning conflict and occasional opportunities to attack, and ultimately I don't think it will deserve the high ranking it will get (already at 25 on TOS). But it's quite good and has some unique flavor and mechanics. I expect much more screwage in my 4p game on Thursday compared to the Automa, though.

I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that the artwork came before the game. Someone saw the themed art, loved it and decided to make a game using it.