Scythe

Maybe I think of point salad different than what others do, but:

add up money
add up stars (modify)
add up territories (modify)
add up resources (modify)
add up benefit from structures

Reminds me personally of Feld or Agricola-esque scoring at the end of a game. Apart from Power, pretty much everything scores for you directly or indirectly (via stars).

True and even the combat is more about converting power and cards into stars for points than dominating territory or opening up areas to increase your production.

I see the Feld comparison a little in that often you feel forced to do something by the game otherwise your efficiency engine will stall. I need to do this action as I've run out of or am about to run out of X. I'd like to do this but I can't because I did it last turn.

The agricultural tools to weapons idea is very cool. I hadn't picked up on that. I dug the theme far more than I was expecting to. I wouldn't fault it on originality of theme or even gameplay despite it being easy to name where so many of its elements came from. And I'm thinking about it the next day which is a good sign.

It'll be interesting to see if it gets better with more plays or if it quickly gets samey.

That big board is totally worth it, especially when the units (farmers, mechs, resources) start piling up in certain hexes.

Yeah, I bought it. $17 shipped from Funagain.

I played the Automa twice, on the easiest setting. The first time it destroyed me. The second time I beat it by a pretty decent margin. It's a GREAT solitaire system that requires just a little player triage to work.

Still need a couple of multiplayer outings to solidify it, but I think this game is great. It is totally an economic Eurogame with a very light, almost optional conflict component. Of course, it is not optional if the Automa, for example, is aggressively pushing its mechs out into your lands. In the mid to heavyweight Eurogames class, it stands as one of the best in the post-hybridization era.

It is definitely all about figuring out how to get the triple plays- the top action, bottom action and enlistment bonus. It's very satisfying to set them up and execute them, working out the logistics of what you need and how you need to accomplish it. I love the light adventure element and the levity it brings to an otherwise highly mechanical design. I really like how you can feel the weight of restrictions pressing down on you, incentivizing pathways that may not be the more direct route to advantages thus forcing difficult choices.

What I kept coming back to during the game I played this morning is that all of the criticisms I have of the game sort of loop back around to criticizing the game for being so incredibly refined and meticulously developed...which aren't really substantial in terms of criticism anyway.

I think expectations are playing a big part in some of the negative reactions- like Pete said, they DID advertise it in their copy as a 4x game, and it IS a 4x game...through a very different set of influencers and design goals than we tend to expect from that genre. It is very much like a Cyclades or Kemet or Hyperborea BUT with the AT influences shifted from 80/20 to 20/80. Or maybe even 10/90.

So yeah, I think this is probably one of the best games of the year...but just like with Eclipse, it's going to chafe some people that really want something out of it that it is not designed to deliver.

Make sure you have the table to fit the expanded board. Seriously, the thing is huge.

Honestly, knowing this is more of a Euro makes me a lot more interested. I'm just not much of a DoaM guy, and knowing that this emphasizes that less than I thought is quite encouraging indeed.

Michael Barnes wrote: Yeah, I bought it. $17 shipped from Funagain.
I think expectations are playing a big part in some of the negative reactions- like Pete said, they DID advertise it in their copy as a 4x game, and it IS a 4x game...through a very different set of influencers and design goals than we tend to expect from that genre. It is very much like a Cyclades or Kemet or Hyperborea BUT with the AT influences shifted from 80/20 to 20/80. Or maybe even 10/90.

How the actual fu....???

No. It's not a 4X. And you've clearly lost perspective. There is NO exploration. What, you call flipping up a card that gives you one of three choices "exploration"? There's no extermination. You literally cannot kill anyone. Ever.

Jesus, you've lost your damned mind.

Scythe is fuckin' excellent. It almost makes me wish I was still doing reviews. It's gorgeous, the technology system is great in how you improve your top actions and decrease the cost of your bottom actions. There is combat for those who want it, and two factions have abilities that are specifically centered around combat and combat cards. The combat system itself is Dune light, bid what you think you need to win, add in a card to boost your strength.

The Encounter cards are freaking brilliant. It doesn't spell out for you with frivolous flavor text, but instead if you have a scrap of imagination, you understand the encounter and what your three choices represent.

You produce, you build, you fight. The fighting can be very cold war, in that you may not actually fight much, but if you aren't prepared for one, you will get wrecked, all your guys sent home, all your resources stolen. Sure, you didn't "kill" anything but the punishment for getting pushed home from anywhere other than those first few hexes is BRUTAL. Realizing you're going to have to re-mobilize and re-establish yourself is...it hurts, man.

I understand some of the visceral backlash against the game because some of the same faces on BGG that are excited about this game are folks that you don't typically find yourself agreeing with. That's because it's a hybrid that reaches across the aisle and does it extremely well.

So yeah, Pete. If Barnes has lost his damned mind, then I've gone fucking gaga too. Take that for whatever you'd like.

4X: Explore, Exploit, Expand, Exterminate.

You don't explore anything.
You do exploit resources.
You sort-of kind-of expand in the sense that you can move places with workers, and build monuments.
You absolutely do not exterminate shit. When you fight, many times, it hurts the aggressor more than the defender.

It's not a 4x. Not remotely. It's barely a 3x.

So, if you like it, that's totally legit. I get that. I'm not hating on anyone that likes it. I'm simply stating that if one calls this a 4x in any way, they've lost perspective.

Rather than a "visceral backlash," my reaction has been mostly surprise that it's a fairly unexciting and uninteresting game when you actually play it. I wish I had deep feelings about it but it generates no feelings in me at all.

Beyond the art and the setting, it's dry as burnt toast.

That's my take as well. It's absolutely Mehtastic from a "fun" factor. Visually, it's stunning. It's like I described my ex-girlfriend: She has the body of a Ferrari and the motor of a Yugo.

Here's a description of why the designer considers Scythe in the 4X family. I would agree, Pete, that at best it loosely fits. But the elements are all there in a basic sense.

---

"My intent isn’t to wedge Scythe into that category or mislabel it, but rather to expand what seems to be a narrow definition. Below are the Wikipedia definitions of each of the Xs:

- Explore means players send scouts across a map to reveal surrounding territories.
- Expand means players claim new territory by creating new settlements, or sometimes by extending the influence of existing settlements.
- Exploit means players gather and use resources in areas they control, and improve the efficiency of that usage.
- Exterminate means attacking and eliminating rival players. Since in some games all territory is eventually claimed, eliminating a rival’s presence may be the only way to achieve further expansion.

Here’s why I chose to apply the 4x label to Scythe:

Explore: In Scythe, characters are moving from their homeland onto a patch of land surrounding the mysterious Factory. The landscape itself is known–you can look across the horizon and see there’s a mountain there. What you don’t know is (a) the encounters you’ll have along the way and (b) what you’ll find when you get to the Factory. It’s in those elements of discovery that you are exploring in Scythe.

Expand: In Scythe, players claim new territories with their units and buildings. At the end of the game, territory control is a big part of scoring.

Exploit: In Scythe, players gather and use resources (food, metal, oil, and wood) and improve the efficiency of that usage through upgrades, building, and enlisting.

Exterminate: In Scythe, players can use mechs and characters attack other players and eliminate opposing units from territories. It’s true that you’re not permanently killing units, though in any game it’s tough to kill an inanimate plastic token (maybe melt it?). It’s also true that Scythe is more often about the threat of combat than combat itself.

All of that said, I don’t want people thinking that Scythe is a game about flipping over hexes and constantly killing opponents’ troops. Rather, I hope people see Scythe as a different take on 4x."

Sophistry overload.

I like the game a lot, but I'm not fooled into thinking it's a 4X, and I don't describe it as such.

That's what I'm saying. ^^^^^^^^^^^