Let's commiserate: Risk SW edition

SuperflyTNT wrote:

charlest wrote: Once someone figures out a dominant strategy and you start to realize the choices in the game are false (lightsaber duel) much of the fun drains away. The game becomes scripted and boring.

I don't get the lack of critical thought (or at least appreciation for it) from people who argue that the masses are too positive in accepting shit shoveled their way.

Second, there's no lack of critical thought. Just because I think you're sounding like a fun murderer and totally wrong doesn't mean that I'm not critically thinking. "Fun first" means that you sometimes get shit like you're describing. You seem to expect that this should be a totally balanced masterpiece or something. It's Loopin Louie style fun. It's beautiful to look at. It has a tie fighter for a fucking board. Am I supposed to look at it and think "oh, that's an elegant design"? It's a fun ass mass market game meant to have fun and make pew pew sounds.

Really well said. There is a best way to play MONOPOLY. It's pretty cutthroat and makes the game extremely nasty. I know it, but I don't put it into play against the kids. Like, what's the point? I might try to become a railroad baron, or see what I can set up with Light Blues or something. There's all kinds of ways to spend time. The SW:RISK game here is played by the 5yo +1. How awesome a strat do we need to employ to have a good time there?

I don't doubt you about the strategy and odds in SW:RISK. I just don't think it really impacts my opinion of the game.

If your friends are MIN-MAXing and sitting pondering optimal strategies with this game, you need new friends or should go back to playing Agricola.

SuperflyTNT wrote: If your friends are MIN-MAXing and sitting pondering optimal strategies with this game, you need new friends or should go back to playing Agricola.

No one's sitting down at the table with their brow furrowed trying to mathematically determine the best thing to do. It doesn't take much thought to realize that giving up 5-6 cards to gain 5 bonus cards is not too great of a payout.

I'm not arguing that we should dissect Star Wars Risk. I'm arguing that with minimal thought problems are clearly identified. Am I supposed to play to the lightsaber fight now, just because? How much strategic thought is ok? Why are you piling multiple different ship types into the same space Pete to avoid giving bonus cards to the enemy? Shut off your brain, dude.

When a dominant strategy like moving the SSD up to spam TIEs is discovered, trying to avoid doing that is annoying. Sure you can, but the point is you shouldn't have to. If you don't play this rule, good for you. It doesn't mention it in the rules but it's in an FAQ post on BGG. Some of the other stuff in the post is good.

The problem is that we have many light games that don't have these faults. Fun is not some rare thing in the board game world right now, so why put up with flaws that could have easily been avoided? Unfortunately there's not a similar weight Star Wars title, which is the real shame.

@Michael - You better tread lightly or I'll submit your old invoices to Rachel Maddow.

Giving up 5 cards to get 5 bonus cards isn't giving up anything, if you win. It's deferring the cards to get to use 5 new cards without response. Getting to take 5 cards without any interruption is a huge deal.

You also have to consider that based on the cards' distribution and powers, it may be that you don't have something else better to do.

It's probably easy to think of it in probabilities and actuarial tables, but in reality, it's far more complex than a simple x/y equation due to the dynamic situation. Why spend a card launching TIEs on the first turns (when you can't attack much) when you can feint with Vader, making the Rebels worry about that.

Mid game, why not spend cards sticking stormtroopers on the Endor track to make their job that much harder instead of MAYBE being able to do something else?

It's not a spreadsheet.

Indeed it's not a spreadsheet. The 5 bonus cards without response can be powerful, but they haven't worked out that way the majority of games I've seen.

If the Imperials are focusing on the ship battle, many times you draw bonus cards for ship squads that are decimated. I've seen people draw useless cards with those five.

Also, by going into the lightsaber duel you're giving up 5 responses to the Imperials. That's five turns of TIE deployments (which is 20 TIEs, right? or is it 15? Been awhile) and tons of dead Rebel ships. There's likely at least another bonus card in there or two which means another group of TIEs deployed and more Rebel ships destroyed.

The problem is that it's very rare for the Imperial player to not be able to activate TIEs, the SSD, or the Death Star. Those are always better options than going to Endor or the Lightsaber duel.

I think we'll just keep arguing in circles so I'll let it go. I think some of our disconnect is because you're not using the most current version of the rules (which you certainly don't have to). I don't want to stomp on your fun (keep having fun!). I like many things about this game and still have it on my shelf. I'm also very confident there are major flaws, which is sad because it's keeping me from selling my Queen's Gambit for a truckload of money.

Edit - by the way, the updated rules/FAQ comes from Jeffrey and Craig Van Ness: boardgamegeek.com/thread/1447610/some-rules-clarifications

boardgamegeek.com/thread/1437040/some-ru...ations-direct-hasbro

This is the most current rules clarifications from Hasbro Customer Service. I didn't use the CVN rules because Craig has a penchant for house rules (second only to R. Launius) and it's not "official".

Or, at least, that's how I view it. I can see why you are making the claims you are, but if fighters can't spawn and attack on the same turn, the game becomes "unbroken" PFQ

I've been playing this game a good deal with kids at school. I've tried it with kids ranging in age from about 8 to 13. Every kid I've played it with LOVES it, and how could they not?

SuperflyTNT wrote: boardgamegeek.com/thread/1437040/some-ru...ations-direct-hasbro

This is the most current rules clarifications from Hasbro Customer Service. I didn't use the CVN rules because Craig has a penchant for house rules (second only to R. Launius) and it's not "official".

Or, at least, that's how I view it. I can see why you are making the claims you are, but if fighters can't spawn and attack on the same turn, the game becomes "unbroken" PFQ

It does improve the game, but I still fundamentally disagree on the lightsaber track.

I don't know Craig or his reputation very well (beyond the games he's designed), but I was giving him the benefit of the doubt over Mary at Hasbro. Maybe that's a mistake.

Craig is awesome. He's genuinely awesome. I've had the pleasure of hanging with him twice, and he's a very good dude. I just know he loves to "tweak" (the curse of the game designer?) things based on hanging with him and talking, and what many friends who worked with him at Hasbro have said. I'm not trying to take anything away from him - I'm just saying that Hasbro is good about sending information out (better than FFG by a country mile, in fact) as I learned from my experiences at Heroscape. They assign people to become sort of "champions" of products.

This begs another question though: If companies' CSRs are not to be trusted to send across good information.....why are we even asking anymore when designers are so approachable?

charlest wrote: When a dominant strategy like moving the SSD up to spam TIEs is discovered, trying to avoid doing that is annoying..

I don't understand. Whenever someone does that to me I destroy the SSD and teach them a lesson in humility. Am I doing something wrong?

While I disagree that all these clarifications are supported by the rules as written, it doesn't matter. Fleets are sectors and ships and TIEs may attack them.

"Thank you for waiting for my response regarding your game play questions on the Risk Star Wars Edition game.

I was able to reach out to our games team and all answers provided were correct!

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Regards,"

This was their answer in reviewing this post. Which was pretty awesome that they did.

This calls for miniature stand ins. I mean if they are ships then they deserve ships.

Thanks Jeffrey for posting these clarifications.

Fuck me...those are official.

engineer Al wrote:

charlest wrote: When a dominant strategy like moving the SSD up to spam TIEs is discovered, trying to avoid doing that is annoying..

I don't understand. Whenever someone does that to me I destroy the SSD and teach them a lesson in humility. Am I doing something wrong?

I'm kind of on that page. As the Rebels, my strategy is always the same, in degrees:

1. Destroy SSD.
2. Spread out to avoid being Death Starred.
3. Do happy dance with Ewoks.

I can't see the SSD being the main target.

With regard to the efficacy of the Falcon, I think it's SOLE purpose is as a spoiler against free cards. Move it into spaces with one or two Rebel fighters so they're not as lucrative a target, until they can regroup. Sadly, the Falcon is just a pissant ship with no real utility other than that, and even that is limited in its relatively high activation cost.

engineer Al wrote:

charlest wrote: When a dominant strategy like moving the SSD up to spam TIEs is discovered, trying to avoid doing that is annoying..

I don't understand. Whenever someone does that to me I destroy the SSD and teach them a lesson in humility. Am I doing something wrong?

Oh we do that too. It's just not likely to destroy it before they get 20+ TIEs out unless you get extroardinarily lucky with rolls. At that point it doesn't matter as you can just keep activating the TIE ball right in front of the Death Star and you will have multiple targets to decimate.

I thought that the Duel bonus of playing five cards potentially without response might outweigh the fact that it's kind of a wash in terms of card rewards per action, but I never got that to work.

The Falcon I think was meant to be the piece you use to rush the Death Star after clearing a sector, because it can be hard to push the other ships into any gap you might make, but again, it gets chewed up pretty quickly unless you expend actions to relocate it (and achieve nothing else with that card).

SuperflyTNT wrote:
With regard to the efficacy of the Falcon, I think it's SOLE purpose is as a spoiler against free cards. Move it into spaces with one or two Rebel fighters so they're not as lucrative a target, until they can regroup. Sadly, the Falcon is just a pissant ship with no real utility other than that, and even that is limited in its relatively high activation cost.

This. Its a flying meat shield. Park it next to the Death Star so that fighters moving up to attack have something to avoid bonus card being drawn too easily as well as prevent the Empire from cock blocking the space.