Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
Talk about the latest and greatest AT, and the Classics.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more!

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 28 Aug 2017 20:13 #253265

As you might know I've decided to make my own version of Dune. I was thinking about whether to make Scott's or Ilya's redesigns when I noticed I no longer have the latter. Worse, it's unavailable at BGG so I can't get the files. Do any of you guys have them? I would really appreciate them.

I've never played the game before so if you have any tips, anything to avoid or keep in mind, I'm all ears. A couple random question to quickstart things:

1) How much worse is the game with 1 less player on it? I have 5 players for sure, but have to look for the sixth.
2) Do you have any experience making your own copy of this game? I'm told the cards are poker-sized so perhaps I can use a standard deck as backing?
3) Is it worth using the additional treachery cards from the expansions even if you don't use the expansions themselves?
4) Are any of the additional player variants actually worthwhile?
5) How do YOU play truthtrance? That card is an unsolvable design nightmare!
Thanks!
  • Erik Twice
  • Erik Twice's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • D8
  • Posts: 1307
  • Thank you received: 758
Last Edit: 28 Aug 2017 20:19 by Erik Twice.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 28 Aug 2017 20:40 #253270

I have all the Ilya stuff. I think this link has most of the stuff. www.dropbox.com/sh/3rbg9v7rou64t6w/AAD02...YIjjLHcoec136oa?dl=0

1) Not much worse. Definitely not a reason to not play or build your copy. 4 is alright as well but 5 or 6 is a step up in quality.

2) I've made my own and helped my buddies make 2 other copies.
fortressat.com/forum/34-pimp-my-game/141600-my-dune-pnp-ilya

When we made my friend's copies last year we didn't use printer studio as in the above link due to the cost skyrocketing. I made a deck on DriveThru Cards... I prolly still have the file and ability to order and would HIGHLY recommend that and likely can get it sent to you. It would be $16.23 shipped to you and at that price there is no reason to try to make them any other way.

3) Never have used any expansion stuff. I personally would not like to change the deck, more weapons/defenses IMO is a negative thing as it decreases their worth and makes it harder to track information at the table (we allow you to write stuff down, but will relentlessly make fun of you for doing so... so nobody does it).

4) Not that I'm aware of.

5) Smack someone for trying to be to abusive of it. In our group it makes the card far less valuable, but gets rid of the headache. No asking 5 turns from now will you use a traitor if available? Keep it to simple stuff. After the question is asked the asker or asked may appeal to the table to decide the "fairness and non-dumb shitness" of said question. Knowing they may appeal you try not to tip your hand with your question.

When you build it, MAKE sure you make a combat wheel. It adds super important feel to the game, cards or tokens or whatever way people have found that is not a combat wheel does not cut it.

Any other questions or need advice just fire away. I love Dune so much.
  • Da Bid Dabid
  • Da Bid Dabid's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • D6
  • Posts: 581
  • Thank you received: 509
Last Edit: 28 Aug 2017 20:53 by Da Bid Dabid.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: cranberries, Colorcrayons, Erik Twice

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 28 Aug 2017 21:04 #253272

1. I won't play with fewer than 5. My preference is to drop The Guild in a 5P game but you could probably randomly leave a side out and do fine.
2. My copy is all ScottE stuff, I just didn't care for Ilya's style. Scott's stuff was super easy to get printed as a custom deck (outstanding quality) at PrinterStudio. This was years ago and I understand it's considerably more expensive than it used to be.
3. No
4. Very much no
5. I'm not sure I can recall a super effective use of Truthtrance...it does require some good timing and very careful question formulation.
  • JoelCFC25
  • JoelCFC25's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • D6
  • Posts: 678
  • Thank you received: 120
Last Edit: 28 Aug 2017 21:05 by JoelCFC25.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Erik Twice

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 28 Aug 2017 21:17 #253273

Anything other than the Dune Combat Wheel is absolute garbage.
  • Michael Barnes
  • Michael Barnes's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Mountebank
  • Posts: 13207
  • Thank you received: 5826
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: JoelCFC25, Erik Twice

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 28 Aug 2017 22:36 #253276

1. Five-player Dune is fine, and even four-player is worth playing.
2. No. I bought the original Dune after FFG announced that they were working on a Dune game. I got a decent deal, compared to the prices after Rex was published.
3. I don't like anything about the expansions.
4. I am aware of the existence of the extra player variants, but don't know anybody who bothered to implement them.
5. Richard Garfield swiped the idea of the Truthtrance card for his Jyhad CCG, in the form of a unique equipment card called Monocle of Clarity. The card was eventually re-worded as follows: "During your untap phase, if bearer is ready, you can ask any Methuselah a yes-or-no question pertaining to the game. He or she must answer yes or no truthfully. If the question pertains to the future, the answer is not binding." I think that is a good way to handle Truthtrance. Also, thematically speaking, Truthtrance shouldn't be able to compel honest answers about the future, unless the subject can actually see the future.
  • Shellhead
  • Shellhead's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • D12
  • Posts: 6676
  • Thank you received: 2356
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Colorcrayons, Erik Twice

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 29 Aug 2017 09:24 #253291

1) I also wont play with fewer than 5 players. We drop the Bene Gesserit with 5 players.
2) I have made Ilya's version and still have everything. I modified the wording on a number of cards though (mostly for clarity), so it isn't exactly the same.
3) Everything I have read has been negative.
4) Everything I have read has been negative.
5) We've never had much of a problem with it since asking a question about the future where the answer may no longer be true seems like a waste. It seems most useful during combat to lock someone into a decision about what weapon/defense they are going to use. Or if you are getting close to winning to ask the BG if they chose you for this round.

I used the black FFG dial clasps when I made mine, they work great.
  • Disgustipater
  • Disgustipater's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • D8
  • Posts: 1501
  • Thank you received: 793
Last Edit: 29 Aug 2017 09:26 by Disgustipater.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: JoelCFC25, Erik Twice

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 29 Aug 2017 16:31 #253348

Da Bid Dabid wrote:
I made a deck on DriveThru Cards... I prolly still have the file and ability to order and would HIGHLY recommend that and likely can get it sent to you. It would be $16.23 shipped to you and at that price there is no reason to try to make them any other way.
Woha, if you can do it, then please do! I would truly appreciate professional-grade cards, they are the part of a game that see the heaviest use and my paste-ups wouldn't last as much. So if you can get them at a fair price, I would truly aprpeciate any help, just tell me what I need to do.

Thanks for the files too! I think I like the design better than Scott's for a couple reasons:

a) Ocre colors represent Dune better than Scott's sci-fi colours
b) Scott's cards have rules for the expansions and I think it's confusing to have it on (Eg. Residual Posion text on Worthless cards)
c) Scott cards have more text (Eg. Ilya tells you that you may keep the card if you win. Scott tells you you might keep it and that you lose it if you lose).

This is not to say Scott doesn't have good stuff! I like the darker Avalon Hill illustrations, specially Snooper. Ilya's are a bit too cheery.
5) Smack someone for trying to be to abusive of it. In our group it makes the card far less valuable, but gets rid of the headache. No asking 5 turns from now will you use a traitor if available? Keep it to simple stuff. After the question is asked the asker or asked may appeal to the table to decide the "fairness and non-dumb shitness" of said question. Knowing they may appeal you try not to tip your hand with your question.
Can you give me some examples of common questions asked during your games?
When you build it, MAKE sure you make a combat wheel. It adds super important feel to the game, cards or tokens or whatever way people have found that is not a combat wheel does not cut it.
I will. It seems very fun and should not be hard to make at all.
Any other questions or need advice just fire away. I love Dune so much.
Yeah, two more :)

a) How did you make the board? The board I made for 1843 bent quickly as the white glue dried.
b) Do you play with the advanced rules? If so, why do they attract you over the standard game?
EDIT: c) What did you use for the discs (both leader and unit ones)
EDIT: d) Does one need a marker for the storm or is it just a nice-have?

Shellhead wrote:
5. Richard Garfield swiped the idea of the Truthtrance card for his Jyhad CCG, in the form of a unique equipment card called Monocle of Clarity. The card was eventually re-worded as follows: "During your untap phase, if bearer is ready, you can ask any Methuselah a yes-or-no question pertaining to the game. He or she must answer yes or no truthfully. If the question pertains to the future, the answer is not binding." I think that is a good way to handle Truthtrance. Also, thematically speaking, Truthtrance shouldn't be able to compel honest answers about the future, unless the subject can actually see the future.
Yeah, this is the way I would rule the card if we are to play strictly. I'm told this makes the card very weak, though.

The alternative is to allow it for actions for this turn only, giving it the same enforcement and limitations as binding deals. This one is more fun, but riskier.

I would personally shut down all downright abusive attempts (paradoxes, compound questions) so those are not very worrying.
  • Erik Twice
  • Erik Twice's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • D8
  • Posts: 1307
  • Thank you received: 758
Last Edit: 29 Aug 2017 17:03 by Erik Twice.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 29 Aug 2017 17:20 #253353

I find the Truthtrance card to be a great way to gauge whether I am playing Dune with the right group. Since Dune is such a social game, it is brilliant with the right kind of players, but can be a drag with the wrong crowd. There's really no way to "rule" how the Truthtrance is used, but every group I played Dune with has their sort of (usually unspoken) etiquette of what can and cannot be asked. If you feel like people are abusing truthtrance, it is probably a sign you aren't enjoying playing Dune with this particular group.
  • Vlad
  • Vlad's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • D6
  • Posts: 624
  • Thank you received: 508
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Erik Twice

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 29 Aug 2017 20:36 #253367

Erik Twice wrote:
a) How did you make the board? The board I made for 1843 bent quickly as the white glue dried.
I had the image printed out large format on glossy photo paper at Costco for like $8. Then I used spray adhesive to mount it to thick chipboard. It is cut into quarters and folds.




Erik Twice wrote:
b) Do you play with the advanced rules? If so, why do they attract you over the standard game?
I think the advanced rules are a must (not advanced combat rules though). They just add so much more depth to the factions. I think of them as if they are the main game, while without them, it's more like a beginner's guide to not overwhelm you with rules.

Erik Twice wrote:
c) What did you use for the discs (both leader and unit ones)
I used wooden discs that I painted to match the faction colors. Small ones for the troops and large ones for the leaders. I also used them for "custom" spice tokens that I made using his art assets.





Erik Twice wrote:
d) Does one need a marker for the storm or is it just a nice-have?
You need one. It doesn't reset every round, but continues on. It also is how you keep track of turn order and who is the aggressor in combat.

Edit - I don't know if this is relevant to you, but maybe a stop-gap until your version is done if you are itching to play:
Dirt Cheap Dune
  • Disgustipater
  • Disgustipater's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • D8
  • Posts: 1501
  • Thank you received: 793
Last Edit: 29 Aug 2017 21:07 by Disgustipater.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 29 Aug 2017 21:06 #253369

**double post**
  • Disgustipater
  • Disgustipater's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • D8
  • Posts: 1501
  • Thank you received: 793
Last Edit: 29 Aug 2017 21:07 by Disgustipater.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 30 Aug 2017 07:22 #253386

Disgustipater wrote:
I had the image printed out large format on glossy photo paper at Costco for like $8. Then I used spray adhesive to mount it to thick chipboard. It is cut into quarters and folds.
That's how I made my 1843 except you used chipboard and I used cardboard. Perhaps I should look into it!
I think the advanced rules are a must (not advanced combat rules though). They just add so much more depth to the factions. I think of them as if they are the main game, while without them, it's more like a beginner's guide to not overwhelm you with rules.
Oh yeah, I meant Advanced Combat Rules (Double Spice Blow/Suppporting troops with spice). I read Starbase Jeff's thoughts on the issue and discussions on BGG and it seems they are widely played but unbalanced.
I used wooden discs that I painted to match the faction colors. Small ones for the troops and large ones for the leaders. I also used them for "custom" spice tokens that I made using his art assets.
Thanks! My question is: Where did you get those discs? A hardware store?
You need one. It doesn't reset every round, but continues on. It also is how you keep track of turn order and who is the aggressor in combat.
Ah, I see now that all copies include one marker. I thought you ahd to use a semi-transparent, sector-shaped piece or something like that.
Edit - I don't know if this is relevant to you, but maybe a stop-gap until your version is done if you are itching to play:
Dirt Cheap Dune
I am indeed itching to play but I'm not sure it would be a good idea to introduce the game like this to the group!
  • Erik Twice
  • Erik Twice's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • D8
  • Posts: 1307
  • Thank you received: 758
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 30 Aug 2017 09:13 #253393

Double spice blow and supporting troops with spice is commonly used, but I dislike both. Supporting troops with spice gives too much advantage to the factions with good cashflow, and introduces a completely unnecessary dimension to combat. It's also anti-thematic, because spice is the most valuable commodity in the whole setting. It extends life-span, enhances psychic powers, and allows navigators to warp through space. You wouldn't give it out like rations to an army. Take away supporting troops with spice and there is no need for double spice blow. Two birds with one stone.
  • Shellhead
  • Shellhead's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • D12
  • Posts: 6676
  • Thank you received: 2356
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Erik Twice

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 30 Aug 2017 09:15 #253394

Erik Twice wrote:
Thanks! My question is: Where did you get those discs? A hardware store?
A craft store, like Michael's or Joann in the US. I think I bought mine online in bulk from a place like this.
  • Disgustipater
  • Disgustipater's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • D8
  • Posts: 1501
  • Thank you received: 793
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Erik Twice

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 30 Aug 2017 19:55 #253465

Shellhead wrote:
Double spice blow and supporting troops with spice is commonly used, but I dislike both.
This is more or less what I've heard. I can't say yet since I haven't played the game but so far I see little point to supporting troops with spice.

A couple questions:

a) How big should I print the map? I feel that, being a six player gam,e it should be big. I was thinking of Republic of Rome size as opposed to Terraforming Mars size, but since one must add shields I wonder if that's too big.

b) How much spice do I need? Do I need different denominations?

c) I found these foam/cardboard boards at the local Chinese store (Which I guess are Madrid's equivalent to the 1-Dollar store). They seem great for the board, though I wonder how durable they actually are:

WhatsAppImage2017-08-31at00.46.47.jpeg


d) Do you have any tips for playing and introducing the game for the first time? (Eg. Warning people not to suicide their troops because they come back very slowly)
  • Erik Twice
  • Erik Twice's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • D8
  • Posts: 1307
  • Thank you received: 758
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Help me play Dune Do you have Ilyas redesign? And more! 31 Aug 2017 15:09 #253513

Another request, sorry for being pushy:

Do any of you guys have Ilya's traitor cards with at least 9 cards on every page? I have them one by one and it would be wasteful to print them like that.
  • Erik Twice
  • Erik Twice's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • D8
  • Posts: 1307
  • Thank you received: 758
The administrator has disabled public write access.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Moderators: Jackwraith, Mad Dog, wadenels
Time to create page: 0.338 seconds