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Let's Delve Into Shadespire

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25 Jan 2018 04:14 - 25 Jan 2018 04:18 #262111 by Matt Thrower
I'm still playing and still enjoying it very much. There's less strategy in it than there first appears, but it's so fast, varied and exciting that it's an absolute blast. And it's got just a sliver of that addictive thing where you look at your hand and the board, plan a turn and then watch it all fall to pieces as you scrabble desperately for alternative options.

Deck building well isn't critical for success. Sure, it helps if you have a card set that plays to the strengths of your warband, but board position and luck are much more important. So it's quite possible to throw a deck together quickly in advance of a game and still have lots of fun, even against a better-prepared player. Objectives are much more important than ploys - so you do need to choose those well - and ploys feel more important than upgrades. The latter feels like the weakest part of the design to me, because they cost VP to play, are often named, and warriors die so quickly it's barely worth it. I've toyed with the idea of a variant that just uses ploys instead, but I've not tried it.

As a result of all this there's no meta and it's absolutely not a money pit. Indeed it seems like stonking value for a GW title: the figures are great and there's no pressure to collect. My only cost-cutting moan is that the expansion warbands don't come with extra copies of the Objective 1-5 cards, which is inconvenient if you want to have multiple decks on the go.

I am still struggling to deal with the Stormcasts. They seem the most powerful warband to me because once inspired, they roll 2 defence dice and become almost impossible to kill unless you have Cleave which is in short supply. Sure I could build a deck to beat them by trying to simply bypass combat and earn VP elsewhere, but since you don't know what your opponent is going to pick, targetting one warband like that is risky.
Last edit: 25 Jan 2018 04:18 by Matt Thrower.
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25 Jan 2018 07:20 #262112 by Msample
Replied by Msample on topic Let's Delve Into Shadespire

MattDP wrote: I'm still playing and still enjoying it very much. There's less strategy in it than there first appears, but it's so fast, varied and exciting that it's an absolute blast. And it's got just a sliver of that addictive thing where you look at your hand and the board, plan a turn and then watch it all fall to pieces as you scrabble desperately for alternative options.

Deck building well isn't critical for success. Sure, it helps if you have a card set that plays to the strengths of your warband, but board position and luck are much more important. So it's quite possible to throw a deck together quickly in advance of a game and still have lots of fun, even against a better-prepared player. Objectives are much more important than ploys - so you do need to choose those well - and ploys feel more important than upgrades. The latter feels like the weakest part of the design to me, because they cost VP to play, are often named, and warriors die so quickly it's barely worth it. I've toyed with the idea of a variant that just uses ploys instead, but I've not tried it.

As a result of all this there's no meta and it's absolutely not a money pit. Indeed it seems like stonking value for a GW title: the figures are great and there's no pressure to collect. My only cost-cutting moan is that the expansion warbands don't come with extra copies of the Objective 1-5 cards, which is inconvenient if you want to have multiple decks on the go.

I am still struggling to deal with the Stormcasts. They seem the most powerful warband to me because once inspired, they roll 2 defence dice and become almost impossible to kill unless you have Cleave which is in short supply. Sure I could build a deck to beat them by trying to simply bypass combat and earn VP elsewhere, but since you don't know what your opponent is going to pick, targetting one warband like that is risky.


Upgrades don’t cost actual VP to play, you are just limited to spending on Upgrades to how many VP you have. So if you have 3VP, you can buy three points of upgrades. We played this wrong at first and thus never bought Upgrades.
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25 Jan 2018 08:31 #262115 by ufe20
Replied by ufe20 on topic Let's Delve Into Shadespire

MattDP wrote: My only cost-cutting moan is that the expansion warbands don't come with extra copies of the Objective 1-5 cards, which is inconvenient if you want to have multiple decks on the go.


Would this make it difficult for someone to just buy one of the expansions and not the starter? Like if I bought the starter set and my buddy bought the undead, would he have everything he needed without borrowing/sharing with me?

Basically, I've got a buddy who is interested in an undead AoS army, but has balked at the cost. I figure more Stormcast and Khorne won't hurt me and I could use this as a stepping stone to Aos Skirmish to full blown AoS for him.

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25 Jan 2018 08:35 #262116 by Matt Thrower

Msample wrote: Upgrades don’t cost actual VP to play, you are just limited to spending on Upgrades to how many VP you have. So if you have 3VP, you can buy three points of upgrades. We played this wrong at first and thus never bought Upgrades.


Ah crap. At least it's not just me. Although the system is pretty tight by GW standards, the rulebook isn't. It seems really easy to miss important things like this. Thanks for setting me straight.

ufe20 wrote: Would this make it difficult for someone to just buy one of the expansions and not the starter? Like if I bought the starter set and my buddy bought the undead, would he have everything he needed without borrowing/sharing with me?


As long as one of you has the starter box for the board and dice, yes. He won't have many card options, and as a result, his decks will be slightly worse than yours, but they should still be competitive. And he'll have enough to try out a few different play styles.

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25 Jan 2018 09:02 - 25 Jan 2018 09:03 #262117 by Mr. White

Msample wrote: Upgrades don’t cost actual VP to play, you are just limited to spending on Upgrades to how many VP you have. So if you have 3VP, you can buy three points of upgrades. We played this wrong at first and thus never bought Upgrades.


Right. This is why the Glory tokens (VPs) are double sided. You earn a VP, then flip it over if you want to spend it on an upgrade. This shows its purchasing power has been spent, but you still keep the token as a count toward your total VPs.

Regarding the fight against Stormcast...I like to set the boards up long ways when possible and setup the blood reavers far away. Stormcasts are sloooow. By the time they get to me I hope to have a few VPs under my belt and I almost always attack them with the non Garrick and Saek psychos...if those three go down, or they happen to take a lone stormcast, Garrick and Saek inspire up. Thematically...blood reavers hanging back and not fighting seems odd, but I play it up that they're chanting, cutting themselves, generally hyping up.
Last edit: 25 Jan 2018 09:03 by Mr. White.

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25 Jan 2018 09:03 - 25 Jan 2018 09:04 #262118 by charlest

MattDP wrote: I'm still playing and still enjoying it very much. There's less strategy in it than there first appears, but it's so fast, varied and exciting that it's an absolute blast. And it's got just a sliver of that addictive thing where you look at your hand and the board, plan a turn and then watch it all fall to pieces as you scrabble desperately for alternative options.

Deck building well isn't critical for success. Sure, it helps if you have a card set that plays to the strengths of your warband, but board position and luck are much more important. So it's quite possible to throw a deck together quickly in advance of a game and still have lots of fun, even against a better-prepared player. Objectives are much more important than ploys - so you do need to choose those well - and ploys feel more important than upgrades. The latter feels like the weakest part of the design to me, because they cost VP to play, are often named, and warriors die so quickly it's barely worth it. I've toyed with the idea of a variant that just uses ploys instead, but I've not tried it.

As a result of all this there's no meta and it's absolutely not a money pit. Indeed it seems like stonking value for a GW title: the figures are great and there's no pressure to collect. My only cost-cutting moan is that the expansion warbands don't come with extra copies of the Objective 1-5 cards, which is inconvenient if you want to have multiple decks on the go.

I am still struggling to deal with the Stormcasts. They seem the most powerful warband to me because once inspired, they roll 2 defence dice and become almost impossible to kill unless you have Cleave which is in short supply. Sure I could build a deck to beat them by trying to simply bypass combat and earn VP elsewhere, but since you don't know what your opponent is going to pick, targetting one warband like that is risky.


I actually think it's deeper than you think, but I could very well be wrong.

I've spent some time studying the big UK tournament and the different playstyles and decks employed (not to further my skill, but to attempt to understand the game better). The winning player fielded the Undead and had no objective 1-5 cards in his entire deck. I think the objective cards are VERY important, not necessarily where one is more strong than another, but I think your deck needs to align with your playstyle. I had huge trouble winning with the Sepulchral Guard until I got a hang of how to build them. The choice to mulligan or not at the very beginning of the game is extremely important too since you really want to get a constant stream of accomplishable objectives, but you also don't want to lose some key cards and never get them back.

I think some of the warbands are easier to play than others but I've seen every single warband released thus far win utilizing different strategies. The way to beat the Stormcast is with board control. For the Bloodreavers, I love a deck that gives you points for having no one on your board at end game and for being on the opponent's at end game. Those objectives won't work against every opponent, but they're solid again Stormcast and Orks, while having an outside shot being achievable anywhere.

Also, upgrades can feel inconsequential but they're basically better Ploys. Giving one of your guys +1 damage is better than a ploy as long as you get to use it twice. Getting an extra wound or whatever on a key member of your group is very important.
Last edit: 25 Jan 2018 09:04 by charlest.
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25 Jan 2018 09:08 - 25 Jan 2018 11:24 #262120 by Mr. White
yeah, I've heard the non-objective 1-5 card deck won a tourney, but I agree, for my playstyle the objective cards 1-5 are very important. But the thing about this game is, I don't think the winner won because he omitted objectives 1-5 and everyone else should too, he just built to his strategy and executed.

success relies on more than deckbuilding.
Last edit: 25 Jan 2018 11:24 by Mr. White.

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25 Jan 2018 13:03 #262140 by Michael Barnes
I like that non-objective deck a lot, I have built for my Sepulchral Guard.

I just netdecked a couple of decks for everyone, I'm not overly concerned about the deckbuilding part of the game. GW really missed the ball by not including "precon" decks that you can make with the warband sets.

Each faction plays pretty much like you'd expect- Stormcast are big, tanky elites that hit hard but aren't as mobile as some of the other armies. Orruks are aggressive, smashy, and hard to shift. Bloodbound is all about killing and suicide. Sepulchral Guard is all 'bout that necromancy.

Really excited about the Skaven warband.

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25 Jan 2018 13:50 #262150 by charlest

Mr. White wrote: yeah, I've heard the non-objective 1-5 card deck won a tourney, but I agree, for my playstyle the objective cards 1-5 are very important. But the thing about this game is, I don't think the winner won because he omitted objectives 1-5 and everyone else should too, he just built to his strategy and executed.

success relies on more than deckbuilding.


100% agree, I think his strength in deckbuilding for his playstyle won him the game.

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26 Jan 2018 08:38 #262197 by Mr. White
Yep. These look fantastic.

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26 Jan 2018 09:22 #262210 by Michael Barnes
Now I really want a Daughters of Khaine war band...don’t think I want to go full army with them but would love to have 4-5 for Shadespire.

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26 Jan 2018 09:29 - 26 Jan 2018 09:36 #262213 by Mr. White
Yeah, GW is killing it with their new AoS factions. With each new army release I want to buy an army. At least buy the battletome and build a skirmish warband.

I love the idea of taking a classic stand-out WFB unit, spinning it off into its own fully realized army and turning the whole thing up to 11. The Mortal Realms are far more exciting to me than The Old World. Never thought I'd say that...

I'm hoping Shadespire does well enough to start incorporating some of these newer armies. Kharadron and Daughters of Khaine would be great fun to paint and play. Snake tailed gorgon archers....awesome! Despite initially balking on going all in on Shadespire....I think I'm convinced. I want it all. Not for deckbuilding purposes, it's just so damn fun to play. I was commenting to friends that it feels like arena gladiators battling it out with streamlined BB rules in the Mines of Moria. I love it and despite using the prepainted Wizkids terrain...I think it's time I make my own proper. There's some really cool work out there that make the boards look incredible.

As Matt said, this game is a great GW value and lets one sample many different AoS factions. Seems like a keeper I'm going to want to have around for years (if not decades)
Last edit: 26 Jan 2018 09:36 by Mr. White.

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26 Jan 2018 09:49 - 26 Jan 2018 09:50 #262218 by Mr. White
So far, my only two issues with the game are, one, that I think all of the expansion warbands should also include objectives 1-5 like Matt mentioned. The second being more hobby centered....but they put the Guard on small @$$ bases. Why? the size of the models seem fine. They look like they'd fit inside a Blood Reaver body with the Reavers being the closest to normal human size to compare, but putting them on those small bases messes with the eye. Makes them look tiny. I'll probably convert them to 32mm rounds which I thought was the AoS standard anyway.

Speaking of conversions, my son did his first modelling conversion with Shadespire. They've since been painted, but don't think I have a photo of that on hand.

Last edit: 26 Jan 2018 09:50 by Mr. White.

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26 Jan 2018 09:49 #262219 by Michael Barnes
Yeah, I really like that Shadespire is an opportunity to have a couple of useful figures from a variety of factions that you don't necessarily want to go in for a full army. That's what I liked about Shadow War (RIP) too. I don't have any interest in an Orruk army, but I like having a few. HATED painted those bastards though...mainly the yellow armor- ugh!

They need to do a Sylvaneth warband too, along with some kind of forest-y boards.

And Daemons...

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26 Jan 2018 09:59 - 26 Jan 2018 10:12 #262222 by Mr. White
Here's the other thing about these Shadespire warbands. With AoS Skirmish being a low model count game with warbands built along Grand Alliance lines...your Shadespire Stormcast and Fyreslayer models can combine into an instant AoS Skirmish warband. AS the game grows, we'll have more models to add and combine with. You can play AoS straight up with Shadespire models having never bought 'AoS proper' figs.

Ha what I'm saying is...one could only buy into Shadespire, pick up that ~$10 Skirmish book, handful of terrain, and boom!....AoS games.

Current GW is fantastic.
Last edit: 26 Jan 2018 10:12 by Mr. White.
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