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× Talk about the latest and greatest AT, and the Classics.

Shelf Toad of the Year

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18 Jan 2018 17:16 #261431 by san il defanso
One thing about buying a shelf toad is that as a group you almost need to commit to not buying or internalizing any new epic games for a while. I'm not even sure it's possible, but you need to resist flirting with newer games for at least some time so that the whole thing can be digested.

It feels like the problem is not that a game is too hard to play, it's that the next thing comes along so quickly that you can't focus on what you already have.
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18 Jan 2018 17:43 #261434 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Shelf Toad of the Year
Let's start filling in some Shelf Toads of the Year for the history of F:AT. My picks (not necessarily games that I own), based on past and current discussion here:

2005: Runebound II
2006: Marvel Heroes
2007: Battlelore
2008: Android
2009: The Age of Conan
2010: Runewars or Merchants and Marauders
2011: Mage Knight
2012: Descent II
2013: Duel of Ages II
2014: Shadows of Brimstone
2015: ?
2016: Star Trek: Ascendancy
2017: Fallen Land

Despite my disdain for Euros, I picture Shelf Toads as being primarily AmeriTrash. Partly because the term Shelf Toad started here, and partly because EuroGames tend to be easier to get on the table for gamers in general, partly due to standard euro design paramaters, and partly due to the bias found at a certain non-F:AT site.

Is there a particular year that might stand out as The Year of the Toad?
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18 Jan 2018 17:56 #261435 by Da Bid Dabid
Replied by Da Bid Dabid on topic Shelf Toad of the Year
Also curious to hear more about Borg, I remember Charlie enjoyed it more on later plays. Josh you play with them at all?

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18 Jan 2018 18:02 #261436 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Shelf Toad of the Year
Maybe X-Com for Toad of the Year for 2015?

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18 Jan 2018 18:06 #261437 by ChristopherMD
Another vote for Star Trek Ascendancy, but I don't blame the game. I bought it around the time my last group split up and they would have played it. I did buy the Cardassian expansion for the 4th player option in the hopes that a 3-4 player game will be easier to get to the table. No plans on other expansions for a shelf toad, but I never saw the Ferengi as a major player so I'd probably only buy them on clearance anyways. Haven't seen anyone too excited about what the Borg add to the game so was easy to pass on them too. As a big DS9 fan I'm hoping for a Dominion/Jem'Hadar expansion which I'd be all over, toad or not.
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18 Jan 2018 20:51 #261448 by the_jake_1973
I refuse to live in a world where Merchants & Marauders is a shelf toad.
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19 Jan 2018 04:27 #261457 by Chaz
Replied by Chaz on topic Shelf Toad of the Year
Every fucking game on my shelves is a shelf toad these days. I should cut bait and sell the whole thing, but I keep holding out hope that one day I won't have a commute from hell, and I'll actually have time to find a game group nearby, so I keep 'em.

Since I don't get to play anything, I guess the defacto shelf toads for 2017 were the three things I bought: Liberty or Death, Colonial Twilight, and Inis. I think I maybe got Mechs vs Minions this year too, but I actually played that, so I guess it doesn't count.

My all-time shelf toad is probably Middle Earth Quest. It seems like a cool as hell asymmetrical game, I've just never managed to get it played. Hasn't helped that I never really digested the rules enough to where I felt comfortable teaching it, and the end game fight always seemed like a pretty goofy thing. Other headliners are Combat Commander, of which I have three big boxes and a scenario pack, but only played a half game of, Duel of Ages 2 with the master set thing, and Bonaparte at Marengo/Napoleon's Triumph.
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19 Jan 2018 04:28 #261458 by Matt Thrower
Replied by Matt Thrower on topic Shelf Toad of the Year

the_jake_1973 wrote: I refuse to live in a world where Merchants & Marauders is a shelf toad.


I'm afraid it's one of mine.
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19 Jan 2018 07:30 #261459 by Cranberries
Replied by Cranberries on topic Shelf Toad of the Year

Chaz wrote: Other headliners are Combat Commander, of which I have three big boxes and a scenario pack, but only played a half game of, Duel of Ages 2 with the master set thing, and Bonaparte at Marengo/Napoleon's Triumph .




Of course, repurchasing NT could prove difficult if not impossible.

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19 Jan 2018 08:57 #261460 by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Shelf Toad of the Year

Da Bid Dabid wrote: Also curious to hear more about Borg, I remember Charlie enjoyed it more on later plays. Josh you play with them at all?


Yes, I came to enjoy the Borg after a few plays. In the beginning it was very rough going as they're tough sons of bitches (which is appropriate).

The thing is, the Borg drastically change the game and the players need to change their approach. You need to not explore beyond a single system or two until you've built up military. You need to save research for weapon upgrades, and you need to pump out lots of ships. If you run into the Borg you'll need to stall the cubes by using your ships as speed bumps in the space lanes and hope for the best.

When playing with the Borg in the center of the table I highly recommend the base game variant of accelerated starting resources. This helps you get your feet under you in the beginning.

The Borg expansion also has kind of a shoddy rulebook and you'll need to be ok with filling in blanks with reasonable assertions. There's gaps that arise and situations where you won't 100% know how to handle it.

The solo game is pretty decent. It's basically the multiplayer game where you're racing to 5 Ascendancy, but the Borg are barreling down on you from the start. I like how you can sort of extend or shorten the length between the Transwarp Hub and your home world to throttle difficulty.

Our preferred way to play with the Borg is to not use the Transwarp Hub, and to just keep their random encounter cards shuffled into the deck. Then we ensure no Borg encounters until turn 4. This gives us time to build up a bit and they turn into more of a mid/late game threat that can topple alliances and shift the landscape.

The thing about the Borg expansion as a whole is that they can be randomly punishing. An AI deck controls who they head towards and you can get hosed. The Borg get stronger when players are assimilated so there's some incentive for another to help you, but it still feels like you have no chance to win if they start gunning for you while leaving others alone. You need players that are fine with this and that will enjoy controlling the Borg and wrecking stuff.
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19 Jan 2018 09:15 #261463 by southernman
Replied by southernman on topic Shelf Toad of the Year

the_jake_1973 wrote: I refuse to live in a world where Merchants & Marauders is a shelf toad.


Because I have so few opportunities with four players that when I do get that number other games always take priority, even when I semi-regularly get three players I have other games that shunt themselves in front of it - and as many/most of my games are long the chance of squeezing more than two games in on those days are rare.

It is a good, fun game but we were a group who did agree it really should be called Merchants & Merchants - we did use a variant on BGG for awhile where your 10VPs had to com from a variety of actions, with actions limited to how many times you could score a VP for it. I see there are dozens (hundreds) of variants at BGG for it now so can't tell you which one it was, it has just about become a sandbox game.

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19 Jan 2018 09:52 #261469 by SuperflyPete
Replied by SuperflyPete on topic Shelf Toad of the Year
We need to start some sort of hippie co/op community where F:ATties can move to and play nightly games in a communal longhouse.

I recommend we also have a whiskey still on site.
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19 Jan 2018 09:52 #261470 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Shelf Toad of the Year
We've actually found that three is probably the ideal number for M&M, since four tends toward overcrowding the map and/or 3 people getting tangled in each others' routes while one runs away with it in one corner of the Caribbean. I think the Merchants and Merchants criticism is generally accurate. My experience with the game has been doing the Merchant (of Venus) route is much easier than running the risk of piracy. But I've actually had the most success with what I call the Privateer route, which means ignoring other players and simply preying on the game's shipping when available and otherwise functioning as a merchant, which also means sticking with ships with a decent hold size and less maneuverability, of course. I think the expansion introduced a couple elements that make piracy somewhat easier, as well, although they're also subject to RNG (like wind direction.)
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19 Jan 2018 10:28 - 19 Jan 2018 10:55 #261481 by wkover
Replied by wkover on topic Shelf Toad of the Year

Chaz wrote: My all-time shelf toad is probably Middle Earth Quest. It seems like a cool as hell asymmetrical game, I've just never managed to get it played. Hasn't helped that I never really digested the rules enough to where I felt comfortable teaching it...


We were feeling the same way about the rules until we made an intentional decision to play for five consecutive weeks at my weekly game group. By the time we were done, we had the rules fairly well internalized and could pick up the game again (as needed) without a full rules re-read.

On the toad topic, my biggest Toad for years was the Lord of the Rings LCG. My family stopped playing (Pathfinder ACG took over instead), but I kept buying. But in the past year they've jumped back on board and we've played all the way through The Lost Realm block. Just a tremendously great time.

By the end of summer, we plan to finish up what we have left: the Saga boxes and the Grey Havens block. Then and only then will I purchase anything new (e.g., Sands of Harad).

Other headliners are... Bonaparte at Marengo/Napoleon's Triumph.


I played Napoleon's Triumph over a dozen times in 2008-2009, but only a few times since then. It's extremely procedural, but totally unique and amazing. Everyone else in my game group avoids it like the plague, since it has absolutely no randomness. (It has uncertainty with hidden blocks, but no random elements in the form of dice, chit draws, etc. It's basically war chess.) So this will realistically never get played again, particularly since I'd have to relearn it from scratch - which isn't at all appetizing giving how much effort I had to invest in the first place.
Last edit: 19 Jan 2018 10:55 by wkover.
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19 Jan 2018 10:34 #261483 by Matt Thrower
Replied by Matt Thrower on topic Shelf Toad of the Year

wkover wrote: I played Napoleon's Triumph over a dozen times in 2008-2009, but only a few times since then. It's extremely procedural, but totally unique and amazing. Everyone else in my game group avoids it like the plague, since it has absolutely no randomness. (It has uncertainty with hidden blocks, but no random elements in the form of dice, chit draws, etc. It's basically war chess.) So this will realistically never get played again, particularly since I'd have to relearn it from scratch - which isn't at all appetizing giving how much effort I had to invest in the first place.


It is extraordinary. I had a similar experience one year when I played it a bunch of times and I walked away from each one feeling like it was a game I could play for the rest of my life, if I had no other games to play. I do, of course, and in time it went into the loft. But it's one I so, so want to get out again and play against my regular gaming crony for weeks on end until I feel I've got a better handle on its brilliance.

It is also the best-looking game I have ever seen.
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