- Posts: 439
- Thank you received: 742
Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)
Recent Topics paging, uploading images and preview bugs require a patch which has not yet been released.
Let's talk Small-Team Skirmish Games
- GorillaGrody
- Topic Author
- Offline
- D6
- Will kvetch for free
I have one other friend invested in this search with me, and part of finding the perfect game involves something that combines our interests as seamlessly as possible.
Me: I like painting miniatures, and then mushing my miniatures together, using rules. I like being encouraged to do a little modding and tinkering, both with the rules and with the models. I like the rules to be flavorful, meaningful, flexible, and relatively simple.
My friend: Doesn't care too much about the models, but wants something a bit crunchier, especially when it comes to modelling shooting mechanics. Recently revisited Necromunda by way of Shadow War and found out you Can't Go Home Again, meaning, the rules were a little TOO crunchy and exploitable. So, also looking for a bit more simplicity, and hoping he and I meet somewhere in the middle.
So far, our favorites could be ranked:
1) Infinity
Upsides: Great core rules, particularly in regards to the d20 mechanism, which is as simple as Frostgrave, but allows for some manipulation and finesse. The way figures activate in the game, using a seamless flow of action and reaction, is a big plus, too. We've put the most and investment time into this game.
Downsides: Expensive, second only to Warhammer. Listbuilding, frankly, requires the internet. It's barely feasible to build a list from scratch on a printed roster sheet, and you pretty much have to build them using their proprietary list builder.. The scores of abilities requires a wiki to hand to play: a dozen plays in, and we're still looking stuff up. By comparison, the rulebooks are atrocious: we've skipped using them entirely. Finally, to my mind, the models are a little samey (though my friend loves 'em). None of this tanks what's great about the game.
2) AOS Skirmish/Hinterlands
Upsides: Frankly, I just like the models a lot, and have invested a good deal in them. I can use them across an array of other, non-skirmish products I own. The rules are just slightly modified from regular AOS; as a result, we have them more or less mastered. Simple, and easy to house rule.
Downsides: Well, yeah, expensive. My friend uses my miniatures, and is not at all interested in dropping a chunk of change on a bunch of new stuff. Additionally, skirmish rules are at their best in tight corners with lots of terrain, and AOS just doesn't really do terrain in an interesting way. Finally, unburnished AOS damage rules means that fights are just a little too brutal in a skirmish setting. You hit it, it drops before it ever gets to act.
3) Frostgrave
Upside: Fast and simple, with an unobtrusive d20 deciding everything in the game. It's well-supported and has a flavorful setting.
Downside: A bit too simple. That raw, d20 roll drives me nuts.
What all these games are missing is a way to build characters from scratch, which I really long to do. Everything here is pregenerated, and requires a certain model behaving in a certain way, or else lots of counts-as exceptions. We've enjoyed Rogue Stars (and that author's older game, A Song of Blades and Heroes) for their flexibility in team building. The issue with Rogue Stars is with the thicket of modifiers required to perform any action. It "plus-one-minus-two" 's you to death. You figure three or more modifiers and then check the results on the chart. Not great. We haven't tried ASOBAH, yet, but I have high hopes for it.
I love Scott Pyle and David Lewis's Supersystem, but my friend hates Superheroes, so.
Finally, I've got to put in a word for Gaslands. It has everything: cheap buy in, fun rules, fun world, flexible, moddable, simple. It's more a race game than a fighting game in most cases, but it's great. The best thing I've played in years, really.
Half of the stuff mentioned above is by Osprey, and they have another half-dozen books I intend to read, or that are great but don't quite fit the skirmish definition above. They are my favorite company right now, and even if some of their stuff doesn't quite stick, so much of it has been so fun (and relatively cheap) to discover, I'll be watching them closely. They're my favorite company, right now.
Still, the search continues for the best non-automotive skirmish game on the market. What have you been playing?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Michael Barnes
- Offline
- Mountebank
- HYPOCRITE
- Posts: 16929
- Thank you received: 10375
Lots of narrative, flavor, and ridiculousness. Probably my top skirmish game.
Shadespire shouldn’t be discounted in this discussion either even though it’s more card oriented.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- GorillaGrody
- Topic Author
- Offline
- D6
- Will kvetch for free
- Posts: 439
- Thank you received: 742
Just finished painting up my Necromunda set, but have yet to hook anyone in to playing it. I miss overwatch rules, and in my solo learning games, the Eschers got whipped without a contest. What am I doing wrong, I wonder?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Colorcrayons
- Offline
- D8
- Wiz-Warrior
- Posts: 1693
- Thank you received: 1703
play it. Huge bonus. The creativity allowed in this game has yet to be surpassed.
And while as much as I like it, progression is not as satisfying as you would find in other games like Mordheim or Frostgrave.
The upside of Frostgrave for me is the simplicity. This allows a bit more immersion to take place while seeing a story unfold before you. The background is more compelling than that of Mordheim as well, for me.
I'm a huge Wiz-War fan, so it's a natural progression to me. Spells spells spells.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Michael Barnes
- Offline
- Mountebank
- HYPOCRITE
- Posts: 16929
- Thank you received: 10375
I may see if I can get my son to play Frostgrave with me this afternoon. Looks pretty easy to dig in.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- GorillaGrody
- Topic Author
- Offline
- D6
- Will kvetch for free
- Posts: 439
- Thank you received: 742
Michael Barnes wrote: Escher really has to play smart- elusive, at range, making use of the map, etc. They can’t win a stand-up CQB fight with Goliath.
I may see if I can get my son to play Frostgrave with me this afternoon. Looks pretty easy to dig in.
I recommend it!
We've also been playing a fair amount Dragon Rampant, meant for large-scale fantasy battles. They allow for very quick team ups of anything you've got vs anything you've got. Not skirmish, but not ridiculously large either, and the game is grokable at a glance but still fun to play. With this system, I'm looking forward to fielding a Sylvaneth/Elf vs Casle Ravenloft Zombie Dragon battle soon. Another Osprey title.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
AoS Skirmish is way lighter than Necromunda, I played half of the campaign in one afternoon. It is also very straightforward progression-wise - you don't suffer penalties, and only buy new units, artifacts and abilities between fights. But there's still a very satisfying sense of progression, as your bands grow from a couple of fighters into formidable semi-armies.
Played A Song of Blades and Heroes once. I really liked the simplicity of rules and that you push your opponent's pieces when you hit them, which makes hand-to-hand more dynamic than usual.
Shadespire is a completely different beast from these. It is more about card play than miniature play, very cerebral, and as such the narrative is close to 0. It is not a bad game by any means, just not a miniature skirmish game as I understand the genre.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- GorillaGrody
- Topic Author
- Offline
- D6
- Will kvetch for free
- Posts: 439
- Thank you received: 742
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- SuperflyPete
- Offline
- Salty AF
- SMH
- Posts: 10733
- Thank you received: 5119
Strange Aeons - Lovecraft.
.45 Adventure - Pulp
Pulp Alley - Pulp
Any Ganesha Games, but Mutants and Death Ray Guns is fucking rad.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Colorcrayons
- Offline
- D8
- Wiz-Warrior
- Posts: 1693
- Thank you received: 1703
Another Mordheim-like clone with better progression and nice pulpy theme.
I'm not sure it's the best lovecraft game ever since investigation isn't satisfactorily realized in strange aeons, but it is fun.
[Edit]
Two other games I haven't played in awhile that I enjoyed, we're Legends of the Old West and Legends of the High Seas. Cowboys and pirate skirmish games respectively. Basically 'hollywood historical' type games.
Hard to recommend them though since they are out of print and command hefty price tags for the rulebooks. Shame GWs historical division went under as we may never see them reprinted again.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
GorillaGrody wrote: Were you playing Oldmunda or Newmunda?
The new one. Not very different from Shadow Wars, which in turn is almost identical to the Oldmunda. However, Alternate Activation is a huge game-changer, and a vast improvement. Hand-to-hand is also way more straightforward. And there's no overwatch (which I don't miss, but some people do). Stray shots are ridiculously more dangerous (but can be easily house ruled). There're some other streamlining rules, but none as significant.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- SuperflyPete
- Offline
- Salty AF
- SMH
- Posts: 10733
- Thank you received: 5119
Aeons can be what wish, though. The adventure you undertake is whatever you can imagine. I made a fun, multi/part campaign adventure for it:
superflycircus.com/2013/07/strange-aeons...tchers-in-the-woods/
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Posts: 785
- Thank you received: 802
Osprey games are amazing value and have a ton of game for the price. While failing completely at your buddies desire to be crunchy, if you guys like action hero type movies no game does that better then A Fistful of Kung Fu.
Does Gaslands have rules for any models not in vehicles? What about fighting hand-to-hand between cars ala Fury Road?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Posts: 1897
- Thank you received: 1268
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Jackwraith
- Offline
- Ninja
- Maim! Kill! Burn!
- Posts: 4364
- Thank you received: 5684
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.