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Weekly Trash - Return of the Heroes

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05 May 2008 17:17 #5841 by maka
I'm not sure about the comparison to Merchant of Venus... while they're both pick'n'deliver games, they are also very different. In MoV you're in control. Once most of the cultures are revealed, you decide your routes taking into account goods on the board, distance, profit, etc... In RotH these decisions are meaningless, unless at some point you have to decide between two fetch quests (if you run out of space). It's more about deciding the best route for the quests you're stuck with...

While I do enjoy Return, I think MoV is a much better game, and more fulfilling. It's also a different kind of game, with a different theme, so that's not a problem really...

-Jorge

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05 May 2008 17:21 #5842 by maka
gcbrowni wrote:

Magic Realm: ?


Go ahead and give Magic Realm a try. It really is the most complete fantasy adventure game around, and although complex, it's not hard to get into it if you do it little by little, reading the right files (MRIPE, 3rd ed. Rules, etc...) and also using the excellent Realmspeak java application, which is great to understand how the game works once you're a bit familiar with the rules.

-Jorge

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05 May 2008 17:30 #5844 by Michael Barnes
Thing is, it's really kind of hard to depict the things that make RPGs really interesting in a board game so they wind up being either hack n' slash, levelling up exercises, or fetch quests...beyond that, and you may as well be playing an RPG.

DUNGEON TWISTER is more of a position/movement/AP allotment/puzzle thing than anything close to an RPG...it's not bad, it can actually be pretty fun but it doesn't feel like a DC at all. And there's no real narrative or character development.

MAGIC REALM really is kind of the place to go if you want a complete RPG experience on a board...the way the game creates a world is really awesome and the level of detail is ridiculously high...but it's at a pretty steep complexity cost. REALMSPEAK, REALMSPEAK, REALMSPEAK...I can't stress enough that it's where you want to be if you want to learn it.

Hmm...I think I'm going to start playing again myself...

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05 May 2008 17:53 #5848 by bryce0lynch
Yes, I understand regarding DT. It's really a kind of puzzle/abstract strategy game with a DC theme. But if you buy the game by looking at the box you might be thinking you're getting a DC ... and would be quite shocked to discover the Chess game inside. If you pulled it out and suggested your friends play it they would think the same thing: this is a DC.

RotH has the same problem. It might be a fine game (but I think it Sux even as a fetch quest) but it's going to be continually judged as a DC/Adventure because of the fantasy theme.

Hmmm, Dragons Gold and Fantasy Business get a pass, but it would seem to be VERY hard to add a fantasy theme to a game and have it NOT be immediately placed in the DC/Adventure game cubby. Fantasy is just tied too strongly to D&D.

Hmmm, I wonder if that's why SciFi don't sell to the Nazi's?

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05 May 2008 20:45 #5855 by Gary Sax
I'd have a hard time turning down a version of Magic Realm that had that dude's graphics on BGG and the newest edition rules... I might even actually be able to play it.

I've tried realmspeak but the thing still just boggles my mind.

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05 May 2008 21:19 #5861 by metalface13
I bought Return of the Heroes for my teenage brother-in-law two Christmases ago because it was on Tanga and he likes Descent a lot and liked playing Prophecy. He didn't like it very much. He said he didn't enjoy the combat.

I've never gotten a chance to play ROTH yet, I'm not dying to, but I'd give it a shot if someone REALLY wanted to play it.

I already have Prophecy which I think fits the adventure lite genre pretty well. Although it can drag on a little bit.

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05 May 2008 22:01 #5863 by Michael Barnes
Don't let Frank Branham hear you talk bad about PROPHECY...he'll choke you.

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05 May 2008 22:06 #5865 by metalface13
I'm not talking bad about Prophecy. It's just that it feels like it should end an hour before it does. We usually remedy this with some quick start rules and lowering the win requirements.

I really like it's player customization and movement rules. It's nice and light.. You can set around and crack jokes about how you just can't get rid of the herpes (harpies) and other such nonsense.

It's been a while since I've played it. Now I'm itching to get it out.

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05 May 2008 22:24 #5866 by Michael Barnes
Did you play it with the shorter end game? That was actually Frank's idea...and it works. It's a shame the "apocalypse" ending doesn't really add that much to the game other than length.

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06 May 2008 03:28 #5872 by Schweig!
When Memoir '44 is Squad Leader *light*, so is RotH Magic Realm *light*. It's short, fun and you can play it with common people.

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06 May 2008 05:45 #5876 by Matt Thrower
Sorry to come late to the party, but here's my take.

I bought the game primarily to play solo, and with the eye to pulling it out on the rare occasions I fancy a fantasy adventure game for the group. So far I've only played solo, so these comments might have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

* Components are a mixed bag for me. The quality is generally good, and I like the landscape art on the board tiles but I think the character art is terrible - *really* terrible.

* The fact that is has quests is a big plus. Sure most of 'em are pick-up-and-deliver quests but they add an extra dimension to the narrative which is lacking in a lot of similar games.

* It's nowhere near as simple as people like to make it out to be. Not that I care about this, but I just can't see it as the easy, family-friendly game it's often made out to be.

* It badly needs a workable system for player-to-player combat. Not only would this add a lot of spice to the game but in games where the Nameless is one of the ones where a special artifact helps to defeat it it'd help add a lot of balance and interest to the game. As it stands the first person to pull the mice and get a clue to go after said artifact has a big advantage.

* It's biggest flaw is that although it's fun to start with it gets boring very, very fast. Games like this thrive on variety and there is nowhere near enough in this game to keep it interesting. Most of the combats are basically the same. Most of the quests - even the heroic deeds - are basically the same. Perhaps worst of all most of the characters are basically the same. There is some variety in the green encounters but not enough to make up the shortfall in the other areas. From the looks of things the expansion (which I own, but haven't yet tried) helps this a lot but I'm not entirely sure it would add enough to keep the game interesting for very much longer.

I've beaten it solo with all the supplied characters (took about ten games to manage that feat). I'm going to keep hold of it until I can have the chance to try it multiplayer with the expansion (although I'm a bit concerned that throwing everyone in at the deep end like that might be a bit much) and if that doesn't improve the experience a lot, I'm going to trade it.

Cheers,
Matt

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06 May 2008 11:19 #5881 by Dogmatix
Schweig! wrote:

When Memoir '44 is Squad Leader *light*, so is RotH Magic Realm *light*. It's short, fun and you can play it with common people.


Just like Ticket to Ride is 1830 *light*?

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06 May 2008 17:59 #5946 by Aarontu
Dogmatix wrote:

Schweig! wrote:

When Memoir '44 is Squad Leader *light*, so is RotH Magic Realm *light*. It's short, fun and you can play it with common people.


Just like Ticket to Ride is 1830 *light*?

And Candyland is Lord of the Rings *light*

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06 May 2008 20:55 #5956 by metalface13
Michael Barnes wrote:

Did you play it with the shorter end game? That was actually Frank's idea...and it works. It's a shame the "apocalypse" ending doesn't really add that much to the game other than length.


Our version of the shorter end game is generally "Whoever gets 2 artifacts first wins."

Or quick start rules are you draw like three skills and three items, pick one of each, then you see who has the highest costing item and highest experience skill and you compare your choices and take the difference in gold or exp points.

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09 May 2008 16:55 #6193 by ChristopherMD
If anyone wants to do next weeks game just let me know. Otherwise I'll post something.

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