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Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

Recent Topics paging, uploading images and preview bugs require a patch which has not yet been released.

× For those who like to push chits.

Completely Fucked Up C&C Stickers

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28 Aug 2012 17:02 #133512 by Mr. White
I've always appreciated that Columbia sends _more_ blocks than stickers in their games. I know that all stickers are used and I get a few extra block leeway if I don't like the cut/paint of some.

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28 Aug 2012 17:36 #133513 by Sagrilarus
Well to GMT's credit they're sending me additional blocks at no charge in spite of my error and subsequent whining. So at this point I need to get all lovey-dovey and talk about how great a company GMT is.

S.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jpat

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29 Aug 2012 12:14 #133523 by SuperflyPete
Allow me to help you out, Sag:

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30 Aug 2012 22:10 #133611 by Sagrilarus
Fixed. GMT has already delivered additional parts to dig me out of my mistake.

S.

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04 Sep 2012 00:59 - 04 Sep 2012 00:59 #133752 by Sagrilarus
`

Hahhhhh-llelujah!

Stickering is complete!

"Alright son, it's simple really, just like Memoir '44. The scenario we'll be playing is called Cannae, and as the Romans you're a shoe-in for the win. Note that I am weak here, in my center, and your best strategy is to keep your troops tightly together in a strong central position, not worrying about my flanks. If you can get my middle to retreat you'll have no trouble mopping up what remains. Got it?"

The boy never reads history. I should fare much better in this one.

S.
Last edit: 04 Sep 2012 00:59 by Sagrilarus.

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04 Sep 2012 01:14 #133753 by repoman
GMT has always been aces as far as I'm concerned. At least with customer service.

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04 Sep 2012 01:48 - 04 Sep 2012 01:51 #133755 by Sagrilarus
No complaints here. In fact they were so quick I didn't miss a step. I've been stickering in the evening, doing a unit or two each night and by the time I had finished the Roman Elephants the replacement blocks were on my kitchen table. In fact I contacted them via two different channels and had two different people get back to me. I had planned to move on to the Carthaginians and come back for the Romans I screwed up afterwards, but there was no need.

The rulebook does not appear to have been significantly revised since first printing. The stickers have, and there's still some very curious decisions with them, almost as if there's something I don't have insight to driving their decision process. I don't see a reason to not put all of one troop type in a single row when that's obviously an available option, and were it me I would have all of the identified "spares" for any particular size together in a group and all the unmarked spares marked as spares by now. I have third printing and everyone at GMT surely realizes this game is going the distance. I would have had a new guy harden up the sticker sheets for printings four, five, six, seven and eight. They make changes to the sticker sheets with each version, but apparently something as simple as consolidating them into one location isn't happening. There must be something I'm missing.

The rulebook is OK. It's fully usable.

Alright, it could be clearer in places including the assembly page. I'd have check-boxed each unit as a separate assembly action, with the unit's count (i.e., the number of blocks to sticker) and an image of the associated sticker inlined in the action item. I'd also list the sheets (most units are on two), though that's overkill. The big picture on the page is very pretty, but not really very helpful. I'd also have a section clearly titled "Assembly" so that it's clear what needs to be done before first play.

The rules should have a revision cycle as well, though as I said before they're not bad. I have extensive experience with Battle Cry and Memoir '44 so a lot of the concepts were review for me. But even something as simple as italicized or bolded text would get the reader's brain onto the right track as they proceeded through the text. The elephant rampage rule seemed positively contradictory until I reread it a third time. The difference between enemy leader and friendly leader in different sections of the text would have been much easier to discern with a bold or an underline. The important part of the difference would be apparent on the first read.

That section would have done well to be presented in bullet form as well. They use bullet form in other sections, so the option was on the table at the time. A competent technical writer would have recommended to change to one exposition format or the other, and that should still be done for subsequent printings. They need to bring someone new in though, someone that doesn't play this sort of game. That first read is when they'll get the best impressions from the person. I know changing rule text is tough . . . you don't want to open yourself to different interpretations of the same material. But a lot of the changes are cosmetic. Bolds and underlines, breaks between sentences. State-based headings.

I'll tell you what though -- there's a LOT of exceptional rules and the quick-ref sheet looks to encapsulate them beautifully. Take this with a grain of salt as I haven't played yet, but I was talking through the rules with my boy using only the quick-ref and it not only contained everything I needed, but presented it in a way that I could use to expound off the cuff. It's big as quick-ref's go, but it looks to turn the entire rule book into four heavily-illustrated pages.

S.
Last edit: 04 Sep 2012 01:51 by Sagrilarus.

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04 Sep 2012 15:51 - 04 Sep 2012 15:52 #133770 by Dogmatix
Sag, I had the same question about the layout of the sticker sheets. When I was putting together my Napoleonics set as well as the CC:A expansions, I was kind of stupified by finding units scattered across multiple sheets when there certainly appeared to be room for all of a given type on a single sheet. It may simply come down to different-sized units on a sheet forcing a given layout combined with late-in-the-proofing-process "oh shit, we need to add x units; find room!" Of course, "bad decision" is always an option, too....

One thing that is worth mentioning though (mostly because it bugs me when I see it, and I see it alot at BGG and CSW) is that people really shouldn't confuse "3rd printing" with "3rd edition." Just because something went to print again doesn't mean you can just update the content. As I'm sure you know, there's a lot more that goes into setting up a print job than clicking "ctrl-P" and even changing just a few words can reflow an entire document. Italicizing, bolding, and even simply capitalizing certain letters ("M" is the bane of all DTP professionals) will change the layout and require a whole new round of proofing and production pre-flighting. All that takes time and money above and beyond the simple re-print costs.

I would agree that the base game may be due for a few updates that would perhaps amount to a new edition (making it a 3rd edition I believe), but I'm not sure there are enough to justify the additional costs or the whining for cheap "update kits" that would inevitably ensue in some quarters.
Last edit: 04 Sep 2012 15:52 by Dogmatix.

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04 Sep 2012 15:55 - 04 Sep 2012 15:59 #133771 by Sagrilarus
Yeah, but the sticker sheets have changed for each printing. Does that make it a 3rd edition? Regardless, it seems to me that if you're going into the sticker sheets to make changes (a couple of them major -- they reversed 50% of the stickers in one) you'd tidy up the other details. I appreciate that GMT is a small business, so there just may not be enough hands on deck to keep that kind of detail in place.

It may also be that the photoshop file that contains the template has been edited so many times and has so many elements that it's touchy as hell and no one wants to mess with it.

S.
Last edit: 04 Sep 2012 15:59 by Sagrilarus.

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04 Sep 2012 18:47 #133778 by jpat
I don't know how much the sticker sheets have evolved, but the "third edition" rules are definitely different from prior printings'. Part of the reason for the rather slovenly rules is that things have been added into the rules over printings to clarify points. The rules are pretty capable of answering most situations at this point, but I agree that they could be probably 75% their current size if rewritten with an eye toward economy and precision. Much of the bloat in the rules comes from repetition and from writing as sentences what would make more sense as tables.

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