Kingmaker (Avalon Hill)

I picked this game up for a few bucks at a used bookstore. It's a game I've wanted to play for quite a while, but what the hell is the thing in the box they're trying to pass off as a rulebook?

It isn't difficult to read, but it's difficult to learn from. Anyone have experience with this game that can give me any pointers on learning it? Which optional rules should I use? Should I actually watch almost four hours of calandale video?!

Also, how critical is the number of players for this game? Does it need the full complement? Do I dare torture someone with a two-player game to better understand the game and rules?

Step 1- burn the rulebook in a fire.
Step 2- just play the old DOS game.

Always watch calandale vids

Agree on the Calandale vids. I thought Kingmaker had one of the worst rulebooks ever.

Its a pretty simply game (although the rule book disguises this). You'd only need to watch the first vid or so. I wouldn't bother with the advanced combat system, its really just a game about a random events ruining everything and collecting lots of troops.

Kingmaker is of nostalgia value only.

If you insist, it scales perfectly well through its supported player number range, from two upwards.

I'm getting the vibe that people aren't too wild about Kingmaker around here. Did it sneak up on you in the wee morning hours and piss in your Cheerios when you were a kid or something?

I think it looks like a pretty fun game. I somehow suspected I was going to get sent back to calandale for this one.

wadenels wrote: I'm getting the vibe that people aren't too wild about Kingmaker around here. Did it sneak up on you in the wee morning hours and piss in your Cheerios when you were a kid or something?

No, it was plenty fun when I was a teenager with time to burn and few better games on the market. But it's a complete crapshoot, and a very long crapshoot at that.

My recollection is that the entire game boiled down to stacking nobles as high as possible, and hoping the plague struck the cities your opponents were stacking in before it struck yours.

Shame really because the Wars of the Roses is a superb subject for a game. But it's still waiting for a really good treatment. Crown of Roses is overworked, and Richard III (while a lot of fun) is underworked. And let's not talk about Sun of York.

It's just struck me that the Wars of the Roses may be the only conflict for which I've played all the related historical games.

Matt - what did you think of the recent Wars of the Roses game?

Space Ghost wrote: Matt - what did you think of the recent Wars of the Roses game?

Which is that, the Z-Man one? I haven't played that - I was under the impression it was a fairly bland area control Euro which just borrowed the theme rather than tried to be even vaguely historical.

Am I wrong? Either about the game you mean, or the quality of the Z-man title?

I thought I'd played Z-Man's Wars of the Roses, but I double-checked - and it turns out that I played Queen's Lancaster instead. Lancaster is set in the pre-Wars era and is a bland, overly constrained worker placement euro.

if we are now talking more general wars of the roses games depsite its kitchen sink design Crown of Roses from GMT is pretty good. It extracts the best bits from Kingmaker (the politics, and political offices) and adds them to a hybrid blockwar game CDG. I agree though it is over done. They could have cut the CDG elements and streamlined down the block bits abit. Richard III is good for a two player game, but if you want politicing, you really want more than just 2 players.

Matt your memories of Kingmaker match mine and i only played it a year ago. Its not a terrible game, but the plague cards dominate the entire thing. Its really just about collecting as many troops as possible, trying to dodge the plague and capture the House pieces.

Ever try tailoring the Kingmaker event deck to make Plagues less common? I also see there have been additions to the event deck since the game came out . Also: here. Looking at the linked event deck there's slightly more than a 10% chance of a Plague card.