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Let's Talk Sword and Sorcery (SPI)

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13 May 2014 11:32 - 13 May 2014 11:41 #177971 by Mr. White
I've got a line on a copy of the blue box (Tim Kirk) Sword and Sorcery at a great price. Never played it, but being a fan of old school fantasy, this looks right up my alley. Apparently, it also has a three player option and runs around 3hours. This title looks perfect.

However, I don't want no shelf toad. Should I just play Wizard's Quest? Will S&S see any plays with WQ, Titan, and Talisman throwing their weight around?

So, what's the skinny?
Last edit: 13 May 2014 11:41 by Mr. White.

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13 May 2014 13:44 #177977 by SuperflyPete
Toad, big as shit. It's a watered down and uglier version of Magic Realm. There's simply no reason to play it with Runebound in existence.

That's my 2c. That said, it's been 15 years or more since I played it, and I played it with SPI addicts.

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13 May 2014 16:33 #177992 by Michael Barnes
Old games like this are for collectors, not players. There's no way you'll be playing this with any regularity.
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13 May 2014 17:39 #177994 by SuperflyPete
The man speaks truth, despite him not knowing anything about playing games regularly. :)

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13 May 2014 19:17 #177997 by trif
But it has killer penguins in it! KILLER PENGUINS!!!!

(and a Panzer unit...)

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14 May 2014 08:36 - 14 May 2014 09:14 #178024 by Mr. White

Michael Barnes wrote: Old games like this are for collectors, not players. There's no way you'll be playing this with any regularity.


I like the 'for collectors, not players' bit, and for the most part I agree. However, I do tend to bring out older titles on a fairly frequent basis. If S&S is as easy playing as the games I listed above (or say Block Mania or GW Warrior Knights), then yeah, it'll get played about twice a year. Which isn't bad considering all the other titles in the group's circulation.

Also, when I bring out a title like this, I like to do it up. In this case, put on Fire and Ice or Bakshi's LotR in the background (no sound, subtitled) while listening to some classic hard rock/metal. It's a fun, throwback time.

If the game isn't so easy to play and is more along the lines of a Dragon Pass, then yeah, I'll probably pass and just bring out Talisman 2nd ed or my buddy's Wizard's Quest again.

I do have a strict no shelf toad, no 'collection' policy. So if this is a no play, then it's a no buy. If it's playable and makes for a cool evening that's a break from the current brand of fantasy boardgaming (which I have no interest in at all), then at the low price point I'm offered, I might go for it.

So, what am I looking at (can't find rules online)? It's fans at BGG say it's easy playing and plays in a shortish (2-3 hours) timeframe. However, if this is really more Dragon Pass or Magic Realm, I'm out.

(Also, this game has two types of play...wargame and questing. I'm assuming Pete has only played the questing version.)

EDIT: for the sake of the discussion on this game, and any others interested, here's a recent little review.
www.blackgate.com/2012/02/28/new-treasur...-swords-and-sorcery/

I dig both these covers (box contents are the same), but am really down with the champions wielding sunswords on the blue box edition. Also, apparently, this article is referencing one of the longer scenarios (the last one?). There appears to be 14 different wargaming scenarios here and many playing in an evening's timeframe.
Last edit: 14 May 2014 09:14 by Mr. White.
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14 May 2014 09:56 #178030 by DukeofChutney
i've seen it compared favourably with Divine Right, which is a fairly simple multiplayer hex and counter with some politics chrome over the top. From my POV it would depend on the cost. If you think you can resell it at around the price you are buying it at then give it a crack. Having had a look at it, it is defo a war game with some fantasy trappings.
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14 May 2014 10:56 - 14 May 2014 10:58 #178036 by Michael Barnes
Listen, I love to think about playing Swords and Sorcery. I had a copy once that I sold for four or five times what I paid for it at an antique shop. It's filled to bursting with that old school, 70s/80s fantasy charm. Obviously, a lot of care and heart were put into the game. Looking at it today makes me think of the Good Old Days, and I have a fondness for games that do that.

But the crushing reality is that this game- and so many others are "second" or "third" shelf titles that are no longer in circulation, discussion, or on tables regularly for a reason. This is not a Cosmic Encounter or Dune. This is one of many games that are, quite frankly, obsolete for many reasons.

The 2-3 hour playtime? Bullshit. This is a game with a 50+ page rulebook. Maybe if you and everyone you're playing it with have completely read and digested the rules AND have played it ten times through to completion the shorter scenarios might make it into that timeframe. Realistically, this is another one of those old games that is going to go very, very long. If you're hearing people say "2-3 hours", they're probably old time SPI guys or something that used to play this all the time at wargaming cons back in the early 80s...and haven't played since.

It's not hard to romanticize games like this...but even among games of this vintage, there are marked differences between a Block Mania and an SPI wargame with two sets of rules, 400 counters and so forth.

Back when I FINALLY got a copy of Source of the Nile a few years ago, I started to read the rules to get ready to play it on the next game night. This is supposedly a highly playable, accessible old school adventure game. But after setting it up and playing around with it, I realized that my group in no way would have fine trudging through it and it would completely blow a full session just to explain the rules and work through a few turns. I looked over at my shelf and saw all of these truly amazing, awesome old school games...and realized that they were really great for their time, but times have changed and those kinds of games are only fun anymore if you're playing them with people who already know how to play them, know what to expect, and are willing to dedicate the time to them that they deserve. Which means playing them every session for a period of time, or at least bringing them out a couple of times a month. These games were not made to exist in collections where you pick something different to play every time you get together or two or three games for a single night. They were meant to be played intensively, repeatedly, and over a longer period of time.

It's like I always have said, it used to be that you'd buy a game like Swords and Sorcery and that was what you did all summer. And you had two or three other friends that were equally committed and had the disposable time available to invest in it.

What I'd advise you to do is to go ahead and pick it up, paw through it (you will enjoy doing that), maybe set it up and see what it looks like...and then flip it.

If you want to play a game like this, there are plenty of FAR more playable, accessible games out there designed for modern audiences. You already own a couple of them. Maybe you think that they're not as immersive because of the art or whatever, but the fact of the matter is that modern games tend to, mostly, do more fun with less work.
Last edit: 14 May 2014 10:58 by Michael Barnes.
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14 May 2014 11:37 - 14 May 2014 11:58 #178041 by Mr. White
50+ pages of rules doesn't excite me.

The offer is for less than half of what it's going for on ebay, and it's partially un-punched, so playing around with it and reselling it shouldn't be a problem.

There is truth in what you say though. I had the same experience with Source of the Nile. After we talked it up here, I bought a copy (even painted some minis) and after playing around with it, knew that in no way would it fly with any of my groups. I still think it's cool as hell, but it won't get played so it had to go.

GW boardgames still get played, and in many cases in my circles are more desired than their reprints. Titan and Legend of Robin Hood from AH are two titles that also get to the table. But here I think all of these are still 'old school' but enough steps easier than some of the more detailed AH and SPI ones. I was/am hoping S&S would be included in that easy to play group.

True, modern designs do more with less, but sometimes that's not all I'm looking for in my time with a game and friends. I like to get lost in the evening, rather than worry about cranking out a few before the night is done, and I can tell you right now, just looking at S&S brings a level of excitement (nostalgia? I dunno) that a Small World, RuneWars, or CitOW (I said it) do not. I wouldn't make the call out for game night to play Small World and would rather just go hang out. For S&S, I'd get excited a few weeks ahead of time.

Oh, well...I'll think more on this purchase. Doesn't seem like anyone here has actually played the wargame portion, so that's a flag...

NOTE: I think Small World is a fine design, and have thought of buying it as a family game, but it would sit next to TtR, Zooloretto, and Catan. I've got enough of these.
Last edit: 14 May 2014 11:58 by Mr. White.

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14 May 2014 13:47 - 14 May 2014 13:47 #178068 by Space Ghost
Quit wavering, and just buy it. The war game is pretty cool -- much better than the questing game. If I recall correctly, there at something like 14 linked scenarios that describe h history of the fantasy world.

I played it a lot as a kid. If you don't like it, I'll guarantee I'll take it off your hands at no loss. I've been looking for a copy off and on for a bit
Last edit: 14 May 2014 13:47 by Space Ghost.
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14 May 2014 14:35 #178080 by Almalik
yeah, the questing game is kind of crap as I remember. The war game was pretty good back in the day (although not as good as DIVINE RIGHT!).

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