Don't lie, you know you pre-ordered Agricola

Adrian Bolt wrote:

mtlawsen said "Something about enough people saying I must like something makes me ask "Why should I?""
Because it would be unsheeply of you not to. Which gets them unsettled and suspecting an AT wolf is around. And if they have to think about that, then they stop chewing the cud, start rolling their eyes and having a hissy fit.

Rliyen said "To take this a step further, if I try a game and dislike it, don't bark at me like I'm a idiot who doesn't "get" the game or "you came into the game with the wrong expectation!""
Then you're in breach of the almighty social contract! All euros are passive-aggressive touchy-feely incarnations of All That Is Good In This World. Ignore that and the pitchforks get sharpened and the torches set alight!

Well, start the fucking torches because I weigh the same as a DUCK! KVACK KVACK!

Michael, the trouble is it's not just RftfG (sic), the attitude does appear to be getting more widespread / accepted. Maybe it should be BullyGameGeek.

Rliyen, ducks with torches(and pitchforks) are part of the Agricola expansion. Or would that be too AmeriTrashy? Dammit, now I'm getting nostalgic for RuneQuest.

I've played Agricola a few times. I've already started to get bored with the 'E' (beginner) cards, and played twice with the 'I' cards.

What I liked:
The cards. The inner CCG fanatic in me loves cards with special powers on them, where I can look for combos and try to figure out the optimal order of playing and blah de blah. There's a very real "Look at this cool thing I get to do!" feel to the games I've played - we all stop to listen to what each player's new power is.

The theme is better than your standard Euro. I think the theme is better than in Thebes, which is your standard 'Euro with a good theme' pick these days but which bored me to tears. Why? You get to see how your farm expands based on your actions, it's easy to imagine sheep running around in your house and your kids going out to plow the fields. You don't get food from anywhere, it's from baking bread or murdering pets. It's not Eklund like or anything but it'll do.

What I didn't like:
Well, it's an optimization/engine game. I have limited patience for these anymore (Race for the Galaxy turned me off completely). Not only that but it's pretty constrained - food is an ever-present problem. So the fun factor for me, the cards, often gets trumped by the reality of building my engine. "Well, I'd like to play that but I have to feed my peeps first. Guess I won't get my Clay Spitter out this game." That's part of the fun/tedium of multiplayer optimization games...but here it's more annoying than usual.

...all that to say, if you don't like engine games you won't like this either. Otherwise I think it's entertaining enough for awhile but the cards can only carry it so far.

Wow, a nice, even-handed evaluation of the game (probably the first in that vein I've seen.) Thanks for the info!

Adrian Bolt wrote:

Michael, the trouble is it's not just RftfG (sic), the attitude does appear to be getting more widespread / accepted. Maybe it should be BullyGameGeek.

Rliyen, ducks with torches(and pitchforks) are part of the Agricola expansion. Or would that be too AmeriTrashy? Dammit, now I'm getting nostalgic for RuneQuest.

Well, this is the sort of attitude that you'll find in a lot of hobbies that breed snobbery: wine tasting, for instance.

Ever been to a wine tasting? I usually go to the big one locally every year; it gives me a chance to go drink a lot of wine that I usually can't afford, I don't have to drive, and I get to hang with some friends. I enjoy talking with the winemakers and letting them do their spiel, and then just BS-ing about the NCAA Tourney. However, there's a significant portion of people who go to those things who are so uptight about everything wine related; from their discerning palates to their outfit (did you know there's a specific wine tasting outfit?) they ooze fanaticism and a superiority complex.

This is a similar scenario to the wine tasting locally; if you avoid the fanatics and snobs, you'll do fine. Thankfully, the wine industry is bigger than the wine snobs; boardgaming can be the same.

--Mike L.

Ken B. wrote:

Wow, a nice, even-handed evaluation of the game (probably the first in that vein I've seen.) Thanks for the info!

Yeah, thanks for the actual balanced review.

--Mike L.

Michael Barnes wrote:

It'd be like if I came on here and called you all morons for not being able to fully experience the magic and wonder of a game of WRASSLIN'.

Wrasslin is wonderful and everybody who can not spot it's inner beauty should be piledriven by The Garbage Man:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1872485#1872485

I don't think it has anything to do with being contrary. I've been reading BGG long enough to know that I don't like the sorts of games that are vehemently advocated on the site. If AGRICOLA is celebrated as the game that will convert Tom Cruise from Scientology to Eurogaming, then that's a clear indication to me that I won't like it.

jur wrote:

A lot of depressing shit.

You're a hit at parties, right?

mtlawson wrote:

I don't consider it a classic AT attitude, but more of a contrarian attitude. Even thought I'm of the right age, I've never seen E.T., never seen Dances With Wolves (okay, about 15 minutes worth), and never seen Titanic. Something about enough people saying I must like something makes me ask "Why should I?"

Man, you picked the wrong one. E.T. is totally watchable. It's like Snickers--you know it's not really good for you, but it's delicious, and pretty harmless.

Titanic sucks overall, to be sure, but if you come in at the right moment, as the boat begins to sink, it's pretty sweet. Then you have to turn it off again before Leo drowns (OMGSPOILERZ!1one!two!!). Kate's titties are nice too, but you can just get that shot from the interwebs.

Dances With Wolves, however, is fucking insulting on any number of levels. It's boring. It's racist. I found it boring. It has Kevin Costner as a good guy (never a good bet!). And it's a fucking bore. I'm pretty sure this beat Goodfellas for Best Picture, so I lost all respect for the Oscars. Goddamn what a snoozefest.

Hah, i think i'll do a review of Agricola when i get my hands on it.

Unless i'm to busy playing Road to Legend that is.

As a general rule, i now mostly avoid the forums on BGG. I just stick to news and specific game pages. The site is still a great resource, but a terrible community IMO.

mtlawson, now that's a fascinating wine-tasting analogy. It's a good fit too, even down to the wine tasting outfit (and no, I didn't know that!) though I suppose it's a bit more sophisticated than trainers and t-shirt.

You're also got me wondering if there's any hobby that doesn't breed snobbery. I suspect not, because there'll always a minority that takes it to extremes.

Adrian Bolt wrote:

mtlawson, now that's a fascinating wine-tasting analogy. It's a good fit too, even down to the wine tasting outfit (and no, I didn't know that!) though I suppose it's a bit more sophisticated than trainers and t-shirt.

You're also got me wondering if there's any hobby that doesn't breed snobbery. I suspect not, because there'll always a minority that takes it to extremes.

Yeah, there's a special gizmo that goes in front of a tailored suit that's used by wine tasters. Looks incredibly goofy to me, because it looks like an embroidered bib. I typically show up in what passes for business casual: dockers and a polo shirt/oxford shirt. Some people, they show up in tails and the whole nine yards. Man, I'm there to drink some wine, BS a bit and enjoy the scenery, not look like I'm getting married or anything.

Think about your average sports fanatic: face paint, team shrine at home, multiple jerseys for wearing, and completely and utterly blitzed by kickoff (courtesy of the tailgating). It's the same sort of snobbery, just put in a different light (and state of inebriation).

--Mike L.

iguanaDitty said "it's easy to imagine sheep running around in your house"

Now I know that I have to have this game! The thought of little sheeps prancing around my house is too cute to pass up.

Glad people enjoyed the mini-review.

Now I know that I have to have this game! The thought of little sheeps prancing around my house is too cute to pass up.

To be clear, there's a little white/brown/black wooden block that you place in various places on your board, one of which can be your house. So imagination is definitely required.

Football fanatics too huh? Please don't describe a phanatikal philatelist!! I don't want that image in my head.
(Trainspotters... no, don't even go there...)

Puts on gushing agricola fanboy disguise: if you preorder you don't just get cubes you also get ani... Sorry I cannot bring myself to write it, it's an even uglier word than the m-word.