Let'sTalk About: Splendor

*Starting a new thread for this one*

In the "What have you been playing" thread, here's what I was about to post...

Michael Barnes wrote: I have to double check throughout the day to make sure I'm not playing Splendor. "Huh? A game?"

I don't care, I like it and I think it's an ideal SDJ-type game. I especially like that it more or less condenses the last 10-12 years of Eurogame design to one page of rules and 20 minutes. I also like how it gets back to roots, feeling more like a 3M game than an Alea one. It's something anyone can play and enjoy. It's not the greatest game of all time, but it is a simple business game with clear goals and nice production.

I knew F:AT would hate it on general principle.

But man, there are a LOT of games that fit this description. Off the top of my head I'm thinking of Origins and Steam Park, both of which are simple games that look way nicer, and generally have a lot more character. I'm with Legomancer, in that I don't hate the game at all. It's just that it's an incredibly safe title that really doesn't have much spark to lift it beyond everything else. A big part of this might just be the art direction and production, which I think isn't really that great.

It's an entirely functional game, easy to pick up and digest. But it seems silly to praise a game for working properly, which is perhaps the most notable thing about Splendor.

I definitely wouldn't presume to know why you appreciate it more than a lot of the rest of us, but from here it sounds like it's benefiting from your recent enjoyment of lighter German designs and your weariness of Kickstarter titles that barely function. Past that I'm having a hard time seeing it stick around long enough to get much SdJ press.

I like the look of Origin, Steam Park was pretty but didn't have more than eight or 10 plays in it, sadly. This poker chip game... not gonna go there. I think sdj winners generally have more character than this, don't they? at first glance at least. no way i get conned by barnes into spending on this

Now I'm intrigued to play the copy I got last week!

I've really got into Splendor largely because it does what a lot of other mediumweight Eurogames do for a tiny fraction of the play time and complexity. I mean you can learn and play a five player game in less than 30 minutes, and while it looks a bit flaccid at first it's actually very challenging to play well.

For me, it's a step back toward the glory days of min-90's German games, when there was a focus on accessibility and maximum play from minimum overhead, and much less worry about stale, life-draining things like balance and depth. Except Splendor does somehow manage to be balanced and deep as well - it just feels like there weren't any sacrifices made to get it that way.

Well said. I definitely appreciate that this is a move back toward "maximum play, minimum overhead". I have plenty of detailed, in-depth games that I enjoy right now, it's refreshing to play something that's _good_ and _easy_ to play. I like economic games, and this is a game that appeals to me because I can get a sense of economic development and challenge in a very short timeframe with minimal rules.

Some of the criticism I'm seeing of it is just so off base, it's along the lines of criticizing a light comedy for not being hardcore science fiction. I'm also seeing a lot of smirking it off because of the theme (which is actually stronger than it seems- being jewel merchants and trading your way into better prospects and attracting clientele makes sense to me) or because it doesn't have some elaborate Pax Porfiriana design going on. That's just not what this game is trying to do.

The game is more than just "functional", there's some neat things going on and it's extremely well designed. It's _fun_ to play, and yes, the chunky chips impact the fun factor. To dismiss such a smart, minimalist design as just "functional" really says more about your group and how you played the game than the design itself.

But the problem is that this game is coming after the FFG era (which is, IMO, over), after the Ameritrash era (which is also, IMO, over) and during the era of post-hybridization. It does not fit in with this era, really, and it really doesn't fit in with what is going on in hobby games right now. It's not Kickstarter, it's not a fucking zombie game, it's not a dungeon crawl, and the whole game is in one box.

Origin is _great_, but it is also more complicated than Splendor is. It is also very 90s, and I think it was tragically overlooked. I think it's on the Miniature Market sale right now.

Also, some of your enjoyment of Splendor may be impacted by how you are saying the title. It should be pronounced "sssssplendOR" with a terrible quasi-Euro accent.

I guess my group is full of knuckle-draggers because we all just found it boring. After the opening part of the game (where you COULD interact, by shorting jewel supplies), it just seemed kind of obvious. You could block players off specific cards in the mid-late game, but it's not like they don't have another play with is 90% as good as what you stopped them from doing, and you spent your whole turn shaving that 10% off of their turn. Not worth it.

I'm not faulting the game for not being a different type of game, and frankly, I don't really see who is. I'm faulting the game because it wasn't fun or interesting.

Edit: I also second Steam Park not being very good, it dropped off hard after my second play.

No, it's not that, it's that some groups- including some folks I play with sometimes- are just not going to get into this at all. They're going to reject it either out of hand or soon thereafter. They aren't going to look at some of the interesting ways it cuts out the bullshit or really care about how easy and accessible it is. That's fine. But this game is not another Mage Knight or Robinson Crusoe.

It's not a deep or profoundly intellectual game at all. It's just simple fun without pretense, and it's all very casual.

I don't know, we went in pretty optimistic. A friend of mine bought and we were both looking forward to it (our third hadn't heard of it and was more neutral). It played a lot like Ticket to Ride, in that on your turn you do one simple straight-forward action, so the play was brisk, and honestly I think that's this game's biggest (non-physical) attraction. There ISN'T a glut of games that play like that, and that's one of the reasons TtR is such an incredible success, but splendor offers little to no room for clever play.

I wish you'd stop saying things like "this isn't Mage Knight" or "this isn't deep", because I don't hear anyone faulting it for those reasons. There are simple games I love, there are non-thematic games I love, there are short playing games I love, but this one left me cold.

No, no one is directly saying that but there has always been this kind of prejudice in the AT realm about these kinds of games. I've done it myself in the past. Transamerica was a favorite whipping boy. Now I'm kind of thinking my kids would like it.

And I do think that AT or thematic games, whatever has as a term become equated with more complex and less approachable games. Back when Robert Martin and I were talking about his kind of stuff, the games we liked the best were the simpler, low maintenance ones. More like Dark Tower than Runewars.

I like complex games, but I have a great collection of them that all don't get played enough for various reasons. I appreciate that Splendor is a good game working in a different space with different design goals.

But hey, it wasn't fun for you guys then it wasn't fun. Period. That's really all that matters. But I don't expect something like Splendor to be the prime source of fun when I play it with my friends. It's understood as a casual game that we 're going to bullshit and drink around, usually before or after something we focus on more.

I'm probably going to ruin all of my credibility as a SEERIS CRITIC here but most of the time I couldn't really care less what game is on the table as long as I'm having a good time with people I like.

Playing with kids is a whole other topic, but Transamerica, P-U.

I agree, games with simpler rulesets are great. It's why I think the D&D Adventure System was so great, It's what makes Wiz-War and Sentinels of the Multiverse great, you hit the ground running, that's a very appealing quality, particularly in the often overwrought AT genre. These types of games put the play in the hands and minds of the players. We don't have to wrestle rules to the ground, they're at our whim from the get-go. Not to mention they hit the table more frequently because of it.

I also agree that there are games that serve as background noise for friends at a table, I'd just rather they be Slapshot (which was the closest game I could think of to Splendor from my collection), Magical Athlete, or any of the dozen trick taking games I have. It just didn't connect with me personally, which as you say is all that matters, I'm just trying to wrap my mind around this game receiving such praise and getting a SdJ nod.

What I've been finding is these lighter, easier to play games have been refreshing. I haven't played it but what appeals to me is it looks like a straight forward, low chaos game...A game you can just play. I kind of hate to say it but it just looks pleasant. That said, I'm going to wait and see with it because I don't see it garnering any excitement by the people in my group to play. As fun as it may be, it just looks dry.

I'm sure glad I don't play games with Michael's straw men, they sound fucking obnoxious.

This game...it's not like you can't make a stripped down, simple, quick, narrativeless game and have it also be FUN. Ticket to Ride (which this game is pretty damn similar to, but TTR actually has tension), For Sale, No Thanks, 6 Nimmt, ANY decent but still simple trick-taking game (or other traditional card game), Knizia's light card games like Loco...it's not like we're fucking donkeys that have no point of comparison for a game like this, so please don't treat us as such. This game makes me regret dissing 7 Wonders for being praised for nothing but its ability to seat lots of players and not be offensive to them.

I enjoy 6 Nimmt, and really, that game is just one step above Bunco.

*Edited out, cos I actually don't give a rat's ass about a game I will not buy.