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Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

Recent Topics paging, uploading images and preview bugs require a patch which has not yet been released.

× Talk about Eurogames here.

FFG Tigris?

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11 Dec 2014 10:39 #192449 by san il defanso
Replied by san il defanso on topic Re: FFG Tigris?
FFG has generally been content to not tinker with Knizia designs. That was the case with Through The Desert and Lord of the Rings.

I think the bigger danger is that the game will languish in obscurity with no marketing push, and a general "FFG sucks" backlash on BGG.

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11 Dec 2014 10:44 #192451 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Re: FFG Tigris?
And then the ultimate doom...the winter sale...

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11 Dec 2014 11:22 #192458 by eekamouse
Replied by eekamouse on topic Re: FFG Tigris?
The only thing I hope they change is to replace the cubes with like bones or something "ancient-y". Coins? Meh. Sticks? No thanks. I'm not sure what. Or just leave it cubes. Feels like there's room there.

My copy's color is extremely faded so I will likely pick this up unless it turns out hideous.

T&E always felt a bit to me like it could have been invented in "BC". Hopefully, it retains that quality to some degree.

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11 Dec 2014 11:22 - 11 Dec 2014 11:23 #192459 by DukeofChutney
Replied by DukeofChutney on topic Re: FFG Tigris?
I will most probably buy this, but i suspect it won't be a smash. Knizia isn't really in vogue these days. Ironically modern gamers tend to remark that is his games are too straight forward, despite the constant praise for simplifications and refinements of modern designs.
Last edit: 11 Dec 2014 11:23 by DukeofChutney.

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11 Dec 2014 11:53 - 11 Dec 2014 11:57 #192464 by bfkiller
Replied by bfkiller on topic Re: FFG Tigris?

DukeofChutney wrote: I will most probably buy this, but i suspect it won't be a smash. Knizia isn't really in vogue these days. Ironically modern gamers tend to remark that is his games are too straight forward, despite the constant praise for simplifications and refinements of modern designs.


I agree that Knizia is no longer in vogue. But, for the most part, I don't think the people who think his games are too straight forward are the same people praising simplifications and refinements. Barnes is the most vocal around here, for example, in praise of Knizia's designs AND the simplication and refinement of modern designs.

(I also think it's more fatigue with Knizia games being rethemed and his mechanics being recycled than a lack of appreciation for straight forward designs.)

As for T&E, that FFG cover is kinda blah. I might pick up a Mayfair copy before they disappear.
Last edit: 11 Dec 2014 11:57 by bfkiller.

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11 Dec 2014 14:56 - 11 Dec 2014 14:59 #192480 by drewcula
Replied by drewcula on topic Re: FFG Tigris?
Did anyone else notice the cover's bottom left hand corner? Euro Classics TM. Hmmmm...
Last edit: 11 Dec 2014 14:59 by drewcula.

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11 Dec 2014 15:03 - 11 Dec 2014 15:06 #192481 by DukeofChutney
Replied by DukeofChutney on topic Re: FFG Tigris?
I did

What other games to people forsee for the line?



i predict; Witches Brew, Taj Mahal, and if no one else gets it reprinted El Grande (i have heard it is getting reprinted soon though).
Last edit: 11 Dec 2014 15:06 by DukeofChutney.

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11 Dec 2014 15:46 #192488 by Colorcrayons
Replied by Colorcrayons on topic Re: FFG Tigris?
I kinda hope that they bring back Tribune primus inter pares for that line. Though it and the expansion was in the holiday sale a few years ago, so its unlikely. :(

I find the euro classics mark to be odd considering the absorption bynasmodee and the statement given that a more direct approach to playing on each publishers strengths was to be instituted.

FFG used to have a small number of euroish games, and they eventually broadened that more, but euros was never their brand strength from what I could tell. Other than kingsburg, they don't seem to have much success in that area. *shrug*

I could see a lot of Knizia designs being thrown in there, considering how CP has published so many of his games.

Now that Rio Grande is essentially no longer relevant for bringing euros stateside, there is a huge opening for stuff not already gobbled up by filosofia/zman.

Id really like to get a copy of Pueblo.

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11 Dec 2014 16:45 #192495 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Re: FFG Tigris?
NIAGARA with actual running water and wind control! #chrome

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11 Dec 2014 22:35 #192523 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Re: FFG Tigris?

DukeofChutney wrote: What other games to people forsee for the line?


I thought FFG was going to republish Mare Nostrum. Did that ever happen?

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12 Dec 2014 07:46 #192536 by DukeofChutney
Replied by DukeofChutney on topic Re: FFG Tigris?
i think it is still in the works, didn't realise it was FFG with the reprint however.

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12 Dec 2014 12:34 #192575 by silverbowen
Replied by silverbowen on topic Re: FFG Tigris?
I recently got into T&E due to the Android app being on sale. I never would have guessed that I'd like it, but I do. Rather a lot. I'm pretty stoked that FFG is repubbing the game so I can get a physical copy for a non-stupid price.

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14 Dec 2014 10:28 #192723 by bomber
Replied by bomber on topic Re: FFG Tigris?
Tigris is probably the best modern boardgame ever invented. It's so good as it is that I've never even tried the variant/expansions that come with the original game (Ziggurat etc). Having said that nothing fuels my antinerd rage more than the whiny pontification about variants and house rules like it's some kind of crime against mankind. Like it's tantamount to fucking the designers wife in places she'd rather not while beating her around the head with a meeple. Fuck off. It's your game, do what you want with it, and frankly any game so tightly "balanced" that it only works if you play it exactly as the rules say so is probably just a pointless puzzle optimisation thats not worth shit anyway. Here is a conversation that will never happen


Earth, 2175...

"Yeah, what you might not know is that actually the original version of Tigris was played with very different rules, but people started messing with house rules (ooo you DO KNOW what those rascals were like back in the day), and before you knew it, people had forgotten what the original rules were and now a less fun version became accepted. You know, because THAT FUCKING TIRED ASS STORY ABOUT FREE PARKING IN MONOPOLY. PS: Free Parking rules didnt make Monopoly shit. Monopoly just is shit."

I cannot stand this idea that fat faced greasy boardgame "celebs" feel the need to "defend" the honour of rules as written, though to be honest, you can get a lot of enjoyment by simply reading through any variant threads over at the other site. Socially awkward!


I've thought about variants and tweaks for Tigris, not that I think its needed, or that I will in fact ever use it (I've not used the official ones for example and have played MANY HUNDREDS of times) but just cos I think its fun. If you cant be inspired by a great game that you love, and freewheel some ideas of how it could have been done differently, well you're missing out. It doesn't need to become real, you don't need to use it, you certainly don't need to force anyone to play it at gunpoint (which you would think its the case if you read some of the lingerie twisting panics written by some of those dickwads over there) and heres the thing, everyone can decide for themselves how to play a game, and engaging in a bit of discussion about variants is not in fact the same as buttraping the designers children. It's mega hilarious when games that are UNBALANCED AS FUCK to begin with and are essentially QUASI HOUSE RULE SYSTEMS BASED ON SHIT EVERY KID ALREADY MADE UP THEMSELVES (I'm looking at you Memoir 44) also attract the kinds of hall pass lawyerish fucknut who feels the need to lecture anyone who might suggest fuck it, lets add a special rule for lobbing a grenade into my game of toy soldiers.


So in the spirit of fuck off to those twats, what would YOU come up with as a variant or mod to Tigris if it was to be included in an FFG repackage. Of course you would write in purple italic font (so it stands out in the rules) that this is really just a hypothetical variant you might want to try with your grandma if no one else is looking and she's about to pass away, because heaven forbid it might tar the canon of this religious tome, being the official rules



Obviously a complaint that comes with the game is that sometimes the tiledraws can be too dominating, especially the red ones, and while I personally think it's one of the most thematic games ever designed (and once wrote a 15 billion word review to that effect on BGG back in the day on this), I do see how a lot of people seem to feel like they want to engage more with their "kingdom", so I could see some kind of special once a game power or bonus could be included to enhance that

I might go back and revisit some of the ideas I had before for this (again, purely for fun to engage with the game, not as a serious proposal to play), feel free to share yours if you want, or not, no one really fucking cares and no one will remember it in 100 minutes time, much less 100 years time.

PS I prefer the open scoring "variant". Fuck you rules police. Its a better game that way (I also quite like the semi variant of only openly displaying full points, thats a bit a of a halfway house)


Flippantly off the top of my head

Tiles
- some kind of open set of tiles that can be drawn from, available to all and replenished when taken, in addition to the normal bagged supply, perhaps you could always put one of your tiles in the bag and take a face up supply tile but not have that count as one of your actions

Lion - the lion is the king of the jungle, so he should be good at kicking mesopotamian ass. I'm thinking Lion player should have as a special (again, probably one time only) ability to add 1 to his external strength in a conflict, perhaps limited to just one colour though, like the red lion, or maybe each lion gets one crack with it.

Archer - he fires arrows and shit. from afar. his one time special ability should be being allowed to make one external attack while theres still a single square between the kingdoms (ie not touching). Probably too game breaking to then allow him to not lose any tiles if he lost the external conflict


Urn, this is like a pot, which you put mesopotamian beer in. Or piss. Or both. Just check before swilling. This guys power should be connected the trader and treasures, like once per game he could put some cubes back in the supply and draw an equal number of new ones of whatever colour he wanted. Or based on some kind of tile draw, draw 1 tile (and then put back) per cube returned and get a cube matching the drawn tile.
Alternatively he could be like the internal conflict equivalent of the lion, so he gets a +1 on internal conflicts cos his urns really contain gold and frankincense and myyyyyrrrrhhhh so he influences the religious struggles, perhaps with a secret play of Arab-Israeli War.


Donkey, well, he is an ass, no, no, he literally is an ass. Maybe he'd be able to cross rivers on his donkey war fleet. So therefore being able to place any tile on a river.


other generic "powers" you could add, ability to peek at an opponents rack. haha. I said rack. I meant tile rack though.

Ability to play 2 tiles of a single colour as 1 tile of another colour.


The genius of Knizias games are that most of them do actually provide a basic framework for players getting in each others shit and "self balancing" so while the things I just wrote are probably poorly thought out and horrendously out of whack, I think Tigris would be able to handle some optional tweaks to the system and be robust enough to trust the players to work with the new toolset to work it out.
The following user(s) said Thank You: 433, stoic

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14 Dec 2014 15:02 #192729 by stormseeker75
Replied by stormseeker75 on topic Re: FFG Tigris?
Nice post, dude!

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07 Jan 2015 13:00 #194407 by eekamouse
Replied by eekamouse on topic Re: FFG Tigris?
More info has been posted:

fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=5295

I think I like the plastic if only because the shapes will also be different and not just a different picture on the same circular disc. Will have to try in person.

However, it looks very much like the player shields are going to be as flimsy as the ones I currently have. I'd love for them to be resilient. Several newer games have used shields you can quickly assemble, and used much thicker cardboard. They stay upright better and aren't knocked over with a quantum breeze.

Still wondering what they will use instead of cubes, if anything for counting points.

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