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Kniza's Lord of the Rings: An interesting divide
- Erik Twice
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As someone who has never played the game, one of the weirdest things about it is not so much the debate about how thematic it really is, but how different the perceptions of the actual game mechanics are. Lots of players think the game is extremely railroaded while fans praise its replayability and depth. Similarly, half the players think it's easy to win while the other half think its difficulty is part of its appeal.
What's the deal with this game?
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Mad Dog wrote: If cards weren't hidden it would be a solitaire puzzle game. So really the only thing any player brings to the table is his/her ability to hold cards.
The same could be said of any co-op game, really. I haven't played the game in years, but I enjoyed it greatly when I have. It's thematic, challenging, requires hard choices, and is easily accessible to non-gamers.
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cfmcdonald wrote:
Mad Dog wrote: If cards weren't hidden it would be a solitaire puzzle game. So really the only thing any player brings to the table is his/her ability to hold cards.
The same could be said of any co-op game, really. I haven't played the game in years, but I enjoyed it greatly when I have. It's thematic, challenging, requires hard choices, and is easily accessible to non-gamers.
Not any co-op game I want to play. Arkham Horror has perfect information of what each player has, but isn't solvable like a puzzle because of the encounter cards and dice. I admittedly have also not played LotR in many years. I always thought it was a boring activity when I did.
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Mad Dog wrote:
cfmcdonald wrote:
Mad Dog wrote: If cards weren't hidden it would be a solitaire puzzle game. So really the only thing any player brings to the table is his/her ability to hold cards.
The same could be said of any co-op game, really. I haven't played the game in years, but I enjoyed it greatly when I have. It's thematic, challenging, requires hard choices, and is easily accessible to non-gamers.
Not any co-op game I want to play. Arkham Horror has perfect information of what each player has, but isn't solvable like a puzzle because of the encounter cards and dice. I admittedly have also not played LotR in many years. I always thought it was a boring activity when I did.
LotR also has randomness in card draws and tile draws. I don't see any difference in that sense. I won't argue with your judgment that it's boring, that's simply a matter of taste.
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I tend to be overly competitive in games (less so nowadays, I hope), and it was nice (for the first time) to put that aside, work together with friends/family, and put a mighty finger in the Big Eye. Plus, I've been a LOTR fan since I was a kid.
If I played LOTR for the first time today, I'm not sure what I'd think. But back then it was awesome.
Edit: LOTR is also unique because it was one of the first games that drove me to seek out internet rules clarifications. Stumbling across Chris Lawson's rewritten rulebook was a godsend. We'd been playing tons of stuff incorrectly up until that point. (The original wasn't the best rulebook, I don't think.)
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cfmcdonald wrote:
Mad Dog wrote:
cfmcdonald wrote:
Mad Dog wrote: If cards weren't hidden it would be a solitaire puzzle game. So really the only thing any player brings to the table is his/her ability to hold cards.
The same could be said of any co-op game, really. I haven't played the game in years, but I enjoyed it greatly when I have. It's thematic, challenging, requires hard choices, and is easily accessible to non-gamers.
Not any co-op game I want to play. Arkham Horror has perfect information of what each player has, but isn't solvable like a puzzle because of the encounter cards and dice. I admittedly have also not played LotR in many years. I always thought it was a boring activity when I did.
LotR also has randomness in card draws and tile draws. I don't see any difference in that sense. I won't argue with your judgment that it's boring, that's simply a matter of taste.
You are missing an important distinction. AmeriTrash games tend to offer you a decision with the outcome in doubt, creating drama. Eurogames like LotR put the randomness first, leaving the player with a more obvious and less interesting decision to make in response.
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Shellhead wrote:
cfmcdonald wrote:
Mad Dog wrote:
cfmcdonald wrote:
Mad Dog wrote: If cards weren't hidden it would be a solitaire puzzle game. So really the only thing any player brings to the table is his/her ability to hold cards.
The same could be said of any co-op game, really. I haven't played the game in years, but I enjoyed it greatly when I have. It's thematic, challenging, requires hard choices, and is easily accessible to non-gamers.
Not any co-op game I want to play. Arkham Horror has perfect information of what each player has, but isn't solvable like a puzzle because of the encounter cards and dice. I admittedly have also not played LotR in many years. I always thought it was a boring activity when I did.
LotR also has randomness in card draws and tile draws. I don't see any difference in that sense. I won't argue with your judgment that it's boring, that's simply a matter of taste.
You are missing an important distinction. AmeriTrash games tend to offer you a decision with the outcome in doubt, creating drama. Eurogames like LotR put the randomness first, leaving the player with a more obvious and less interesting decision to make in response.
I still don't agree. In LotR, you have to make a decision about what to do this turn, not knowing what the next event tile will be. Did I make the right decision? Or will a Sundial come up and screw us all? Plenty of drama there.
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- Erik Twice
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They bring their brains, their strategic skills and their views on how the game works. The interesting part of coops for me is the discussion, not whether I could solve the "puzzle" on my own.Mad Dog wrote: If cards weren't hidden it would be a solitaire puzzle game. So really the only thing any player brings to the table is his/her ability to hold cards.
I also see no point in hidding cards in a cooperative game in which you can freely discuss such cards. I played Pandemic with open hands and the game was faster and much more interesting because of it.
Do people really care about owning something? Perhaps I play too much 18XX but I don't see anything wrong with not having a "my guy" but "our guys".Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: It fails the Frank Branham test (this is me, those are mine), so you have to make very big logical leaps to work out the theme.
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Erik Twice wrote: I
Do people really care about owning something? Perhaps I play too much 18XX but I don't see anything wrong with not having a "my guy" but "our guys".Ancient_of_MuMu wrote: It fails the Frank Branham test (this is me, those are mine), so you have to make very big logical leaps to work out the theme.
But there is a my guy - I'm Frodo, you're Sam, she's Pippin, etc. They each have a special power. When I played, I certainly didn't like seeing my hobbit corrupted, even if in terms of optimizing for victory of the team it was the right thing to do.
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