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× Talk about Eurogames here.

Dominant Species?

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15 Jun 2011 14:44 #97973 by Black Barney
Hey has anyone tried this game yet? My buddy just picked it up and I was curious how it was. BGG says it's the 2nd best game of 2010 (behind 7 Wonders which I love so far) and was curious what FATers (FATies?) thought

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15 Jun 2011 14:49 #97976 by san il defanso
I think that Barnes reviewed it a while ago. You might check that out.

I still haven't played it myself, but it looks like one I would dig.

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15 Jun 2011 15:07 #97980 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Re: Dominant Species?
You'd probably like it, Barney. I was not so thrilled due to it's play time, ugly components, and what I feel is an overall lack of character. Now that Chaos in the Old World can support a 5th player and was superior to Dominant Species even before it did, I see no reason to play DS if you're looking for a Euro-y DoaM game.
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15 Jun 2011 15:10 #97981 by JoelCFC25
Replied by JoelCFC25 on topic Re: Dominant Species?
I've played it just once, and I thought it was interesting but much, much too long. There are some pretty swingy effects--I don't mind that part at all--but if the game had been at least an hour shorter I think it would have been closer to the sweet spot for me. It packed a nice gaming punch, but took forever to do it. Maybe I just played with APers, though.

Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of long games too, but they need to deliver an experience commensurate with the time you put in. I have a hard time quantifying or describing it, but hopefully you get my drift.
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15 Jun 2011 15:17 - 15 Jun 2011 15:21 #97984 by Black Barney
Replied by Black Barney on topic Re: Dominant Species?
thanks for the input so far!

People are telling me that "I" would love it so there must be something in it that I'll respond to. But Joel talking about the game length makes it sound like something I'd HATE. I love 7 Wonders for lots of reasons but length is WAY up there cuz it's so nice and short. And I know EXACTLY what you mean about long games should be commensurate by the time you put in. Twilight Struggle and War of the Ring both reward you greatly for spending so much time playing them. They are a fun ride and the endings are often EPIC. Whereas Le Havre and Through the Ages are NOT commensurate for the time you put in. The ride is ok (the beginning is better) and the ending is massively anti-climatic which leaves you feeling empty and used (like my dates with Ken so far).

And I'm a HUGE APer so maybe that's bad for this type of game.

Josh, are you saying that Chaos in the Old School hits all the same buttons as DS but does it better?
Last edit: 15 Jun 2011 15:21 by Black Barney.

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15 Jun 2011 15:33 #97986 by Chapel
Replied by Chapel on topic Re: Dominant Species?

Black Barney wrote:
And I'm a HUGE APer so maybe that's bad for this type of game.


Yeah, this game can get bogged by people suffering from a lot of AP. But it's a great game. Lots of interaction. It's a long game, but no one seemed to notice or comment on it, which is a good sign things are staying interesting enough to not seem like it's taking a lot of time. But then again I'm a dirty euro type anyway. So YMMV. :)

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15 Jun 2011 16:59 - 15 Jun 2011 17:01 #98001 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Re: Dominant Species?
By no means am I saying they're the same game, just that you can apply the same broad description to them both, that being DoaM games that are rooted in Euro mechanics. Some of the mechanics are present in both games, but they're presented in very different ways. DS felt like 2 1/2 hours of clockwork to me, while CitOW, which I rarely ever games that last over 90 minutes, allows the personality of the Chaos gods to shine through, thus giving the game more character and charm. In CitOW, I feel like I'm the one making my god behave in a certain fashion, and if I do what my god likes, I'm rewarded for it. In DS, you're not really doing anything differently from anyone else, you just get to do something automatically (as far as I remember, anyway) that represents a characteristic of your animal in a very abstract fashion. That felt very bland to me, and since everything you do is based on worker placement, very restricting. When you add in the playtime and how prone the game is to AP, I think I'm willing to come to the final verdict that I dislike Dominant Species....possibly even hate it.
Last edit: 15 Jun 2011 17:01 by Josh Look.
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15 Jun 2011 18:28 #98015 by lj1983
Replied by lj1983 on topic Re: Dominant Species?
I recently traded DS away. It is well designed...but ultimately I did not have Fun with it. just alittle too long, and too many moving pieces for me. I liked how much it allows people to screw with each other. I dislike end-game scoring being half your points for the game.

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15 Jun 2011 21:27 #98030 by Hatchling
Replied by Hatchling on topic Re: Dominant Species?
I'd say try before you buy. I played once and I liked it. I like the bit of assymetry, the growing Tundra creeping to the endgame, the possibility of major swings, the tight choices, the fear that someone is going to screw me over, the fact that you always have options. I'd like to play it again, but the only thing that makes me hesitate is that I know it will be a lot of brain work.

I don't think the game supports any comparison to Chaos in the Old World though. They are too different for any comparison to be very informative IMO.

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15 Jun 2011 21:30 #98031 by Hatchling
Replied by Hatchling on topic Re: Dominant Species?
BTW, Troyes sounds cool. You might want to give that one a look.

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15 Jun 2011 22:33 #98033 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Re: Dominant Species?
I've come to the point where I buy and maintain my collection based around niches. If I have a game that fills that niche, I'm not going to buy another one, unless the unanimous word on it is that it makes all other games in that niche obsolete. So yeah, Euro-centric DoaM for 4-5 is a niche, and Chaos in the Old World is sitting mighty pretty on top of that niche.

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15 Jun 2011 23:35 - 15 Jun 2011 23:40 #98039 by Schweig!
Replied by Schweig! on topic Re: Dominant Species?
you'll probably LOVE it

or maybe NOT

lol
Last edit: 15 Jun 2011 23:40 by Schweig!.
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16 Jun 2011 00:06 #98044 by jason10mm
Replied by jason10mm on topic Re: Dominant Species?
I think DS is pretty awesome. But then I like the heavy analytical games like Power Grid, Caylus, and such. You can cut the play time simply by removing cards. I've not played CitOW but if it is anything like DS then I'll have to check it out when I can.

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16 Jun 2011 00:16 #98045 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Re: Dominant Species?

jason10mm wrote: I've not played CitOW but if it is anything like DS then I'll have to check it out when I can.


It's not. Let's make this abundantly clear, I'm not saying CitOW is anything like DS, just that they both fit a very broad niche term for me.

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16 Jun 2011 01:36 #98047 by repoman
Replied by repoman on topic Re: Dominant Species?
Dominant Species is a great game. Very deep, very brain burning, and the cards involved can change the game in very significant ways.

The randomness in the game (through cards) is actually quite minimal. The cards take effect at the end of the turn so you know what's coming. You can adjust your position to minimize harmful effects and amplify good ones.

End game scoring is powerful but a good player can position himself to take advantage of that.

Game length is an issue. 3.5 hours is about average as long as you have a game shepherd to move things along. I, as an unrepentant wargamer, am un-phased by a game length of this nature. But people who get itchy after an hour on one game will probably get irked by this game.

This game rewards repeated plays as a knowledge of the entire card deck is helpful and there is just no way to grasp all the strategies and options in just one game.

The people I have found that like this game the least are those who hate to adjust a game strategy half way through a game. If their initial strategy doesn't pan out they get pissed and can't form a new one. It is possible to have an initial strategy get squashed in this game, adapt to the new situation, and end up winning but it takes an agile mindset.

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