Low-Fi Components/Components Fading into the Background

charlest wrote: Psycho Raiders is better because the components are low-fi. The cult/indie atmosphere is empowering.

I saw this recent post and wanted to create a new thread to discuss it. I love it when game components fade into the background and immerse you into the gameplay. I like it when time stands still and you're thinking of nothing other than "the game." In fact, I live for that moment when it happens. Sometimes, the game components or game designs interfere with this process. You can feel the static, speed bumps, or roadblocks. The Psycho Raiders game is a good example of components that match the B-movie Horror theme of gameplay-- it's so true that chromed or upgraded components would interfere with that game.

The other day, I stumbled upon a post-apocolyptic game that I really would like to try because it is so minimal and you essentially immerse yourself into the gameplay and psychologically become part of it--it's essentially a map that you draw while guided through the seasons of a year. The game is called: The Quiet Year. Anyone played this? It looks interesting.

buriedwithoutceremony.com/the-quiet-year/

I'm not sure the Psycho Raiders components fade into the background for me. That paper map and counters are always kind of on the edge of my mind and I'm thinking about that messed up magazine wondering what went through these guy's mind.

The edginess of it reminds me of that scene in True Detective when Rust opens his storage shed and you're struck with awe.

I have A Quiet Year, though I haven't yet found a group to play it with. I was attracted to the open play suggested by the blank paper, juxtaposed with the fairly disciplined rules for interaction between players.

I don't know about lo-fi components. The card tokens in Kill Shakespeare are sad, and I felt compelled to replace them with wood cubes (which I had to hand anyway). But also, I'd love to redesign Chaos in the Old World and strip out all the chrome and art, as I don't "see" the plastic figures and whatnot anyway. I guess that's an argument about simplicity rather than fidelity.

I've played A Quiet Year. I, too, was intrigued by the concept and I was genuinely enjoying the game during play. However, the end of the game when it just stops really left a foul taste in my mouth. So much so that it reversed all the enjoyment I had been having up to that point.

Maybe players who are more in touch with role-playing in general (or maybe even just being aware of this non-resolution ending) wouldn't be put off as much as I was. Despite my experience, I still would recommend anyone who is intrigued by it to go ahead and give it a try.

I still haven't played Psycho Raiders but I can imagine that playing it with a bunch of Kickstarter made in China miniatures would be like watching a digitally ultra-remastered 3D virtual reality hologram of the original I Spit on Your Grave.

Nate sent me a bunch of awesome badges the last time he sent me stuff...one of them was a crossed-out miniature and it says "Fuck Minis".

I couldn't agree more. I'm over getting tickled over opening a box to find a bunch of bubblegum machine figures. It's not impressive anymore. It was impressive TEN YEARS AGO, but now I'm just not all that enthused about it. It's one thing if figures are like X-Wing, and the toy aspect of it is actually very important...but it's another when there's these ultra-detailed minis in standard board games.

What I like is EVOCATIVE components, because it doesn't really even make any sense to have a completely 2D environment evoking a setting or an atmosphere and then overly representative figures. I'm totally fine with cardboard standups, and in fact the reason I just traded Space Ghost for his 1st edition Incursion was because I wanted the old version with standups. SUper Fantasy appeals to me too because it has standups.

Miniatures are so overrated in board games...I get the point in a tabletop game where you've got terrain, and there is that whole "model train" aspect to creating a scene. But in board games, come on. It's so overdone now. Even painted, I'm just not impressed by it.

One of the things I really liked about Onward to Venus was that it had EVOCATIVE components. Just a bunch of old timey cardboard tiles and chits. No minis. Very low-fi, but I wasn't sitting there thinking about any aspect of the figures. I was thinking about what was going on in the storyline of the game.

THere is a big difference though between lo-fi and cheap/chintzy.

charlest wrote: I'm not sure the Psycho Raiders components fade into the background for me. That paper map and counters are always kind of on the edge of my mind and I'm thinking about that messed up magazine wondering what went through these guy's mind.

The edginess of it reminds me of that scene in True Detective when Rust opens his storage shed and you're struck with awe.

I literally just bought a laminator and sleeves, and laminated all the cards in the game. If I had one to do the map, I'd have done it too. That said, the little tokens are fine but a turn off for me. I spent an hour last night looking for applicable 15mm models to buy to replace them, and some micro machines or something that would work for the cars.

I'm a bits whore, and bad parts are as much a distraction as good ones, in my mind.

SuperflyTNT wrote:

charlest wrote: I'm not sure the Psycho Raiders components fade into the background for me. That paper map and counters are always kind of on the edge of my mind and I'm thinking about that messed up magazine wondering what went through these guy's mind.

The edginess of it reminds me of that scene in True Detective when Rust opens his storage shed and you're struck with awe.

I literally just bought a laminator and sleeves, and laminated all the cards in the game. If I had one to do the map, I'd have done it too. That said, the little tokens are fine but a turn off for me. I spent an hour last night looking for applicable 15mm models to buy to replace them, and some micro machines or something that would work for the cars.

I'm a bits whore, and bad parts are as much a distraction as good ones, in my mind.

So long as the game play is good and the ideas are sound, I'm willing to let my imagination take over--I don't care about the bits. One difference with upgrading a game though, like you're doing with Psycho Raiders, is the fact that "you" are actually buying into the game designer's concept enough to let your own imagination run-wild and take over the game play. You're modifying the game because you got bit by the gamer designer's concept and want to explore that world--that's a win in my book for the game--Kudos. I'd love to see what 15mm miniatures and micro machines that you eventually choose for Psycho Raiders.

Ten years ago now I used to be all about mechanics, I bought into the FFG design style. Moisture bombs would drop seeing how a designer addresses a certain complex issue and their ability to abstract that topic to allow the theme to come through in a playable way. I'd look at some designs in awe and admiration.

But that was years ago. Now that stuff doesn't get me giddy and doesn't impress me.

What I'm after now are Low-Fi Rules/Rules Fading into the Background. I appreciate more over the top production on stuff and specifically miniatures because they allow the setting to be conveyed in a very real way.

Thinking about this topic over the weekend reminded me of how I basically resent Dogs of War for being so over-produced. I keep wanting to redo the whole game as a deck of poker sized cards and some chits that would probably fit in a deck box.

I'm out of space for games, so anything in a big box is less likely to get purchased.

I've railed against Thunder Alley for being a game with a sandwich bag of chits and a deck of cards being held hostage two eight-fold playing boards that tank up the box. Two more eight-folds are coming up for sale, making this thing go about six inches wide on my shelf when it could be two or maybe even one with standard GMT maps. Bugger to carry in the bag too. As best I can tell I'm one of two people indicating they prefer smaller on this title.

The question I ask is this -- what is the extra production adding to the game? At times I think it has value. Nexus Ops is a great package on top of a great game. Other times the extra materials seem to just be extra materials, and at times they detract. (Step-loss in Tide of Iron is a pain in the ass, easy in Memoir.) I like richness, I like refined, but I don't like big. Not very American of me.

Added expense is in the mix too, but as best I can tell bigger contents and bigger price sells better, so there's not a lot of pressure to go low.

S.

Sagrilarus wrote: The question I ask is this -- what is the extra production adding to the game?

The other day I was watching NOVA about the 3d photography used by the British to gain intelligence on the Nazi defenses, ship locations and other sights of interest. By being able to take two 2d photographs and looking at it through special glasses the image gained depth and dimension. This was of great use to British intelligence because it made objects that appeared inconsequential or overlooked all together to pop off the page and be discovered to be part of the Nazi defenses or a diversionary prop.

These images were also fed into a machine that provided quick and accurate scaling tools. This provided British intelligence with information to construct scale models of various sites. And these models provided an entire chain of command valuable information to plan from.

Where I'm going with this is throughout the entire process going from 2d images on paper to a scaled 3d model greater understanding was achieved. A greater connection was achieved between viewer and subject.

Space Hulk could be played with tokens, but in 1st Ed the bulk of the Space Marines up against the physical mass of numbers and wiry frames of the Genestealers gave perspective. Made those blips that much more mysterious. Fast forward to 3rd Edition and the dynamic poses gave character and life to the Space Marine models, a well designed model captures the trait of the individual. The model ripping up the floor searching underneath has a different mindset than the one with Lightning Claws with the "Come at me Bro" pose. The Genestealers popping up through the floor, compared to the ones hanging off girders, compared to the ones charging forward all give a different dynamic and sense that they aren't running down the hall in a Conga-Line like 1st Edition portrays. A well designed and well thought out plan for a final game can make the game appealing and provide life.

Yesterday I placed an order for Colt Express and North Wind. Both are games with 3d cardboard models. Both could have easily been done with flat cardboard sheets. There's a pleasure and appeal to these images though:



To be honest, neither of these games have mechanics that reinforce being on a train or boat. The over the top elements though, I assume since I haven't played yet, elevate the mechanics beyond the mechanics in a vacuum and help drive the setting, to act as aids and to people people's imaginations in a direction to let them run wild.

Now, yes, there is a point where there is a bit of give and take between production and usability. The Space Hulk models, as amazing, full of life and full of character they are, they're a bit of a pain to work with, but not unmanageable. The train in Colt Express I imagine will be a little tricky at times getting the little cowboy meeple from the inside of the traincar.

I used to work for a company that makes optics and software for spy sats. You have no idea just what machine vision is capable of. I am still under contract to never reveal, but seriously, it scares the fuck out of me.

Consider that they now sell commercial 3D scanners that can digitize anything to .3MM accuracy, let alone the really great ones that can get down to 1/10th that. You could build anything relatively cheaply now, provided you can scan something first. We are just on the cusp of "The Age of the Replicator". I foresee in 50 years that you can download a recipe and have your printer make you a perfect parmesan chicken. Not being facetious, either.

The only think I need to fade into the background are the rules. People asking questions, looking up a small rule...once the rules fade away a game can be enjoyed to it's fullest. I think part of that enjoyment is the visual attractiveness of the game. Sure cardboard standees are fine. They work well in Dead of Winter and Legends of Andor. Plastic minis are just as cool. For Space Cadets: Away Missions, I was super excited about the new brain in a jar. Why? Well, now it looks like a brain in a jar! It looks awesome!

I've always been a fan of boardgames because their is an inherent toy factor found with them. Playing HeroQuest back in the day, I was floored that the game came with furniture, mini sarcophagi and plastic weapon racks. It adds nothing to the game. Then again...it adds EVERYTHING to the game. I love the way that game looks on the table. I'm still shocked that no other dungeon crawler has decided to include furniture and whatnot. Blows my mind.

I came into boardgames in the mid 2000s. Part of the enjoyment then was just how much cool shit you were getting for your $50 or so. Being primarily a videogamer I was getting tired of CG style artwork on videogame covers and instruction manuals being in black and white...offering nothing extra. As videogames got more and more big budget most of the companies skimped on the cool shit that I used to love about games. I used to enjoy reading all of the little character bios in Final Fantasy VI. Or in a NES game I'd flip through the instructions and read about all the weapons and enemy types. Sometimes the instructions just had cool handdrawn artwork that wasn't in the game. It was part of the complete package. Now most games don't even come with instructions. You just get a slip of paper warning you about epilepsy.

I found that boardgames could have all of this cool hand draw style artwork, and neat little wooden/plastic components. It just was awesome to see the value you'd get. Fuck it, I still get joy opening up a brand new game and seeing what's inside! I love looking at the artwork on cards, checking out the minis or standees...reading the rules. To me it's part of the fun of the hobby. I don't understand this sorta self-hatred movement that seems to be going on. Why all the sudden are boardgames not supposed to be fun toys with lots of cool plastic.cardboard shit? What is so much more acceptable about a X Wing miniature instead of a Stay Puft Marshmellow Man mini? To me they're both awesome! I'd much rather have them than not.

So for me, no I really don't want the components to fade into the background. I want my rules to get internalized and then I want to spread fear and disease with my army of Nurgle minis.

I think I've developed Early Onset Grumpiness because the card models for Colt Express are why I never, ever want to play that game. It just looks janky and cheesy to me, adding annoyance to moving meeples inside the carriages, obscured from the vision of everyone around the table. A dual track flat board (inside, roof) would have been clearer. Wood meeples, sure, why not. They are the key element of the game, and as such should stand out. But that slottaboard stuff... yuck.

See, my plan is to send my daughter and nephew in with their tiny fingers because they'll be all about moving those little dudes around the train. That's who I had in mind when I bought the game, sure some older more refined individuals may see the train as a gimmick, but the people who I plan on playing the game will love it.

And I'm not going to lie, I'm going to love it also.