Zev is leaving Z-Man Games!

Yeah, FFG dumping on their purchasers (retailers) was pretty uncool. But -- that was on Asmodee's watch.

What, do you mean the Black Friday sales ? That's all old stuff.

My local stores each still have a copy of Merchant of Venus on the shelf.

So, then it's about price protection and the end of discounting. Good luck with that. I can't envision people spending the same scratch on an FFG game that they do on really high-end Kickstarters. I look at things like Conan, Ghostbusters, and Xia for 100$ and then I look at something like Armada. At 60$, Armada is a fair price. At $100, it's an egregious over-reach.

They excel at making good games with great bits, but they can't compete with Kickstarter if all things are equal.

Generally things aren't equal, so we need to define 'high-end'.

I look at the KS games you've listed and the only thing I see they have over Armada is mini count. I haven't played any of the games listed here, but from what I read Ghostbusters ain't that great and who knows how Conan will turn out. Plus, there's countless others (Dungeon Saga, Myth, Shadows of Brimstone, etc) that may have a ton of plastic but light on quality in others areas (casting, cards, _rules_ ). I'm not an FFG apologist, but I figure an FFG title will at least have an acceptable standard of component quality across the board and some playtested rules.

I dunno. I really don't have a dog in this fight, but I just don't see how just because a game has a metric ton of plastic means it's a higher quality game. I once bought a game with 100+ plastic minis for $20. It was called Zombies!!! Though fun, I wouldn't call it 'high-end'.

I'd be more likely to spend $100 on a Pedro Ramos sculpted BB team than some KS game and all it's add-ons. That team of 16-20 models would be 'high-end'. So, comparing dollars to mini/component count isn't exactly the best gauge.

I've revised my opinion on the reasons for this move after putting on my "supply chain/channel hat", but I think I'd like to talk more about this KS v FFG parity discussion.

I think there is parity, and not just about miniature counts. I never mentioned or alluded to that aspect but I can totally see why one would think that. It's valid.

I look at FFG who is successful DESPITE THEMSELVES, literally walking into successes by pure luck. Look at how they manage to feck up virtually everything they touch over the years: Dungeonquest and Merchant of Venus, to a degree Wiz War, and others. They did well with the Flightpath stuff, for sure, and Eldritch is a masterpiece IMO, but it's still hit and miss much of the time with them.

Kickstarter is no different. Some suck add, some rock. The point is that there's way more real marketing done to sell a KS than your typical FFG game, and in my experience, I know more about a KS game than an FFG game when I press "pay", by and large.

With KS, they're also not limited to Lovecraft, Terrinoth, Star Wars, Warhammer, and Reprints. There's a lot of really cool ideas that FFG can't take a risk on but that KS creators can.

I think there's a multitude of reasons that you get more value out of KS than buying traditional FFG product, on balance. Variety is a huge part of the business, and FFG can't compete in that regard. No single publisher can, really, when it comes to the arena of ideas, so to speak.

You pay less or equal for more stuff with KS, in my opinion, if we're talking MSRP. If they were to reduce discounting (Which I don't think is happening, after some pondering) then they're going to have a hell of a time.

san il defanso wrote:

SuperflyTNT wrote: Something tells me Seal Team Flix just got less likely to be printed. It's a shame to see such an innovator go, but God bless the man. He's brought joy to hundreds of thousands over the decades and the man deserves to do what makes him happy. Best wishes to the King.


Now....what's this about FFG?

Here it is.

I didn't read the rest of the thread much past this yet, but what a pile of shit of reporting that is over there. The actual press release and documents ANA put out says quite clearly that ANA is about sales and distribution while the publishing/design houses would remain independent and just keep on keepin on for the most part. Maybe actually read the primary source before writing an ill informed and misleading "news" post.

SuperflyTNT wrote: I look at FFG who is successful DESPITE THEMSELVES, literally walking into successes by pure luck. Look at how they manage to feck up virtually everything they touch over the years: Dungeonquest and Merchant of Venus, to a degree Wiz War, and others. They did well with the Flightpath stuff, for sure, and Eldritch is a masterpiece IMO, but it's still hit and miss much of the time with them.

Not trying to totally derail the thread, but I think this is wildly exaggerated, if not flat out wrong. The original game is present in FFG's Merchant of Venus. How can that be a fuckup? You can play their new version or you can play the original. Best of both worlds, no? Meanwhile, FFG's is, by far, the best version of Wiz-War ever produced for components and variety. Again, you can play with the original boards and rules or you can modify it to FFG's version. What, exactly, is fucked up about that? Plus, they've added new stuff that is really pretty cool, but which can be added or ignored as you like. As for DQ... I get that there's a group of people here at F:AT that regard that game as something close to a holy relic but, honestly, it was half-assed when GW first produced it and it still kinda is now. The modern hobby tends to piss all over games that are completely random and essentially frustrating for people that try to play them and Dungeonquest is the prime example of just such a design. The game didn't end up in the sale bin because the card combat system was poor (although it was misguided), especially since they reproduced the old dice-based system on their website within weeks of the new version's release. It ended up in the sale bin because it's a shit design from GW's days of churning out whatever half-cocked idea came to Jervis and which they managed to sell because it had the GW label on it. They were the Kickstarter of the 80s and 90s.

Meanwhile, as you say, FFG has produced one of the games of the decade with X-Wing and has a line of success going back over a decade from TI3 to Eldritch Horror. I see far more hits than misses. That doesn't resemble "pure luck" to me in any way, shape, or form.

wizkids.com/blog/2016/02/03/zev-shlasing...new-board-game-unit/

So... yeah. Wizkids could use a little more talent on the boardgame side, IMHO, to match their investment. Seems like a good fit.

Gary Sax wrote: wizkids.com/blog/2016/02/03/zev-shlasing...new-board-game-unit/

So... yeah. Wizkids could use a little more talent on the boardgame side, IMHO, to match their investment. Seems like a good fit.

I just saw this news myself too and it's a good fit. Wizkids does some good work but they need help for sure in a number of different departments. This is exactly the move they should have made... good call on their part.

It's like every time you played a Wizkids game and thought "damn, there are such good ideas/components here - if only the game were better!"

BEHOLD! #prayersanswered

Ska_baron wrote: It's like every time you played a Wizkids game and thought "damn, there are such good ideas/components here - if only the game were better!"

BEHOLD! #prayersanswered

I thought people were complaining about the components' quality from Wizkids, for instance in Mage Knight expansions.

Columbob wrote:

Ska_baron wrote: It's like every time you played a Wizkids game and thought "damn, there are such good ideas/components here - if only the game were better!"

BEHOLD! #prayersanswered

I thought people were complaining about the components' quality from Wizkids, for instance in Mage Knight expansions.

There were some complaints about quality but I think it was mostly about consistency. Especially with the newest expansion. Which I'm still waiting for a re-print of.

I try not to be a nay-sayer, but unless WizKids changes a bit internally I see Zev banging his head up against the wall a lot.
Zev always seemed to be games first and then profit would follow. WizKids seems to be not that way at all.

Saving money for Zev's next auction a year or two from now. Been wanting to try Dice Masters.