Who is "number one" (Pandemic Legacy edition)

Honestly, I'm surprised that Twilight Struggle was number 1 for so long being a 2P game requiring a large investment of both time (individual games) and effort (multiple plays required), it alienates many wargamers who dont like that its classed as a wargame, it annoys a lot of euro gamers who dont like the defcon wins or the in your face way you can mess carefully crafted "strategies" up, or the imbalance of the two sides, skewed across the timeline of the games turn structure. I can't think of any other game I've ever played that is so exhausting, literally exhausting throughout every single thing you do in the game. Its exhilarating and wonderful, but theres no coasting in Twilight Struggle, obviously enough people agreed, at least until now!

When I "got back into" games in the general hobby game sense it was probably 2010, Twilight Struggle had recently taken number 1 from an old favourite Puerto Rico I think, and Pandemic was the game which dragged me into this world of literally thousands of games I had no idea were being made every year. While the buzz of trying to "beat the game" (solve the puzzle) made Pandemic a big hit, it wasn't long before I tired of it and realised it was one of the most boring games ever invented, and I still feel like its appeal for many is just that thing like when you discover a new puzzle or fad and you just have to solve it. Once you start to realise how the game actually works I think it feels pretty pointless especially once youve won a few times, that was the case for us anyway

I'm not a fan of the legacy version either, though I think it was clever and even innovative though in many ways, a kind of obvious extension. And now its number 1 in the rankings, I'm quite happy in some ways because displacing TS on New Years Eve serves as a great last page in a chapter of my reintroduction in games, and a kind of farewell to the hobby as described by sites like BGG (but not just BGG). I've owned lots of games, lots and lots, many hundreds, and now I own few, we all have our own preferences, but for me, having a handful of games that I love, play a lot, and still want to play a lot works for me, building up "collections" for imaginary game groups I dont know and friends I dont have, with time I certainly dont have just leads me to get sidetracked into some kind of side hobby of reading information, vicariously investing in games I will probably never get to play in real life, and just an uncomfortable addiction enabling mentality of acquiring stuff and rationalising why I need it. I dont.


To cut a long story short, how would you "do" the number one thing? Do you prefer to nominate best in category, best in class, best by player number, best by mechanic, best by theme? Would you list one or multiple games if asked for a number one, would it be different if a "gamer" asked you compared to someone who knew nothing about games. Is it important for a "number one" game to appeal broadly across the gamer spectrum, should it appeal even outside that (ie be more gateway, I guess Pandemic Legacy certainly fits that bill),


I think I'd put more stock in a few categories than a single number one so I'd start out with a very limited group

A classic broad appeal strategy game
- Tigris & Euphrates (Acquire)
Tigris is still utterly fantastic,a throwback to when eurogames meant something else, rich, thematic, engrossing. Definitely a contender, a downside being that IMO its strictly a 4P game. As a more "casual" alternative, thats easier to explain to your auntie, probably a bit easier to manage and follow and is quite a bit more flexible in player count (4 still best, but I think 3 is still good and 5 also if people keep it moving). Theres a clear lineage between these games and designers and probably this is the most obvious example of where the "mass market" version of a game is every bit as accomplished as the more evolved "gamier" version

A Modern Euro (with dice!)
- Troyes (Lords of Vegas) / Backgammon
Dice have been a sticking point for the floppy hatted mediterranean trading games crowd whose favourite colour is brown. Dice have definitely returned to the fold though, providing various twists like activating actions, providing resources, limiting available actions as well as just the drama and excitement that can be had rolling the bones (many euro fans actively reject this and do daily face exercises to try and "relax" their face muscles to avoid showing any joy during serious gaming activities). I was not surprised that my choice for modern euro thus had dice, Troyes is utterly wonderful, despite featuring many things I actively avoid these days, the combo cheezing, VP salad, needless obtuse iconography in places, but what elevates this game is the combination of variability with how the activity cards combine with the dice rolling and the fact that you can and should get in each others face buying and nicking each others dice to thwart your opponents moves while making your own. I would not want to force this directly on a non gamer because its in that category of games that would seem to be overwhelming to people whove never done more than roll dice and move, so Lords of Vegas would be my "accessible" option, more dice in euro clothing, it includes banter, drama and even wheeling and dealing settlers style in a fitting theme, plenty of scope for dick moves and a genius fucking scoring track. Definitely an underrated gem. We still play a lot of backgammon, its still great but should be played with the doubling cube. Contrary to the bleating I read about this "oooo noo a gambling game" this is NOT about gambling at all other than the cube being there for you to add a strategic dagger to your sessions and try to evaluate when you have a position which you could win, but so could the other player (so they accept the double) and thus you can play matches to a number of points rather than the more pedestrian single unique game way. Works perfectly without any money or real gambling, its there to let you play a series of matches to points without having to play each game individually.

A card game
- Race for the Galaxy (Innovation) / Poker
I'm looking forward to learning Pax Porfiriana but thats a vanity project, but Race and Innovation have also seen hundreds of plays at ours, mostly 2P with the missus, and we love both, in some ways I should dislike race since its so clearly built on an excel chassis but it just works and I guess I'm lucky enough that I do find the joy in the card art and the "tableau story" as well since I always look at the developing board and try to imagine the story behind my growing space empire. Innovation I think is easier to explain and get going with, and much more interactive and its breathtakingly good, definitely a game which rewards experience but I love how different cards become more or less powerful depending on the state of the board and how its all constantly changing, but not "like Fluxx" as some would say (please try playing online at isotropic against good players to disavow that nonsensical idea that its just a luck fest). I added poker there because at a big table of friends who may or may not be gamerz, poker is still fucking fantastic and really its a bit sad I dont make the time to play it more

An intense 2P game
- Twilight Struggle / Chess
For the reasons above I still would consider TS as a contender for number 1 because I think it might be the only game Ive played where the word "gripped throughout" is completely accurate and does not refer to any under the table handjob shenanigans. Its totally engrossing, draining, demanding, exhilarating. I put chess as the household option because its the only other game I can remember with the same demand for concentration and each move being incredibly carefully considered. I should play this more but the problem is you need to study a lot to be good, unfortunately I cannot enjoy just playing casually knowing that games are mostly decided by who makes the horrific blunders first.

A heavy Euro
- Brass (Agricola)
I've played both of these hundreds of times and still keep coming back for more. Brass between high lever players is just wonderful as every single play is laced with intent, subterfuge, signalling and bluffing about how your network and infrastructure will develop and who you are offering an albeit temporary partnership and who you are declaring economic war against. It requires some patience to learn though, but I dont think I would have any problem teaching Agricola even to non gamers, starting without the cards, then adding in a handful of "baked in" starter cards to demonstrate how they help and then right into the full game, The theme obviously wins (see Facebook, Farmville) and it works beautifully here with the sense of achievement at building something while still providing room to dick with your opponents when you know what you're doing. Works great at many player counts whereas Brass is ONLY a 4P game.

Dexterity / Physical game
Carrom
I am setting myself a resolution to play this more again since its been in the cupboard in 2015 due mainly to baby jail. I still dont know why people would ever prefer Crokinole to this, works great as 2P and as 2 vs 2 and on a high quality indian hardwood table (this is proper Carrom not the weird US version with those spazzy cue stick things) a game you can practice and get good at or just enjoy as a muppet.

Trashy Fun
- Heroscape
I have to say I am most excited about this one, I cant be the only one who wrote this off without thinking many times before, seeing the hexes and minis and assuming it was more like a kids roll and move toy. As Ive matured (? haha) my first thought is well that sounds fucking great actually but it turns out its also wrong, seems like a really fun game is here, and Im quite smitted with those minis, pre painted too (woo hoo for the crap painters club). Ive bought a big batch to enjoy with my kids (oldest one just turned 5) but I have a dirty secret that I am really looking forward to playing this with the wife as well when no one is looking. I've not had the best success with trashy games before, I didn't like Space Hulk or Claustrophobia, Doom was OK, Forlorn Hope I had a soft spot for, but mainly I just dont play with enough people who like that kind of game to have enough experience with it. Heroscape has a refreshing honesty about it, its just a shame I missed the cheap clerance phase and now have to shell out stupid amounts to "collectors" to get hold of most of it.

Wargame
I've just started dabbling more seriously with this, but dont feel qualitied to comment, I am enjoying Combat Commander and Conflict of Heroes for different reasons, but Fighting Formations seems interesting so far, Ive found some local groups for the new year so hopefully I can have a proper opinion here next year



And so who is "number one".

Honestly, if I have to pick ONE GAME that represents a great game that includes conflict, trashy fun, groans, in your face interaction, euro calculation, reasonable playing time, accessible to both gamers and non gamers, class and longevity, I think I could only honestly pick one, even if its perhaps not my absolute favourite of the games I own (but obviously one of them since I dont own that many games) its


ACQUIRE
over 50 years old and still fantastic. I dont know why a great game would ever "age" but I know that the vast majority of games which have come out in the last 5 or 10 years will not still be being played or talked about in 50 years.



how about you lot? easier to decide? able to pick something thats not necessarily your own favourite?

The thing is, being asked to name the best game is the same as being asked to name the best song, the best book, the best movie. There is no one best and my opinion and yours will change based on circumstance, mood, and over time.

That being said, these sorts of exercises can be fun. Twilight Struggle is a great game. It is not my favorite but it's quality is undeniable. Pandemic Legacy in the number one spot on BGG only serves to illustrate that the ranking system can be manipulated. That is a game that will be all but forgotten in a short period of time.

So on with the categories you chose:

Classic Broad Appeal Strategy Game:

Settlers of Cataan: The game that sparked the modern age of boardgaming. It is as solid today as it was 20+ years ago when it came out. Can be explained in a 5 minutes but with a huge amount of depth. Luck and dice are significant factors but don't trump skill. Play the Star Trek themed one to avoid the horrid wood/sheep joke.

Modern Euro:

I abstain.

Card Game:

Wizard. I think this is the best implementation of the trick taking card game. Plays well with as little as 3 but also great with larger groups. Runners up would be Fields of Fire and Glory to Rome

Intense 2 player game:

Advanced Squad Leader. No other game has so much variation, freedom of action, and depth of strategy. Every choice has consequence. Every die roll is important.

Heavy Euro:

I abstain again because I don't play them often enough.

Dexterity:

Crokinole! Get out of town with your silly Caroom.

Trashy Fun:

I'm with you on Heroscape.

Wargame: Again ASL. Runner up is Paths of Glory. Intense like Twilight Struggle only better.

Best game of ever? Can't pick just one.

yeah this was more along the lines of you get to decide yourself how you would do it, you dont need to follow my categories thats just how I broke down the handful of games I own and know well enough to consider them being a possible representative number one. I wouldnt say Acquire is necessarily my favourite game on the shelf, nor even the best (even if I could decide which one actually was, with any authority) but for me, Acquire would represent the ideal choice as appealing to a broad range of gamers, across a number of genres, flexible appeal to different play counts, interesting also to "gamers", a reasonable playing time so theres no barrier to getting it out etc etc. Its actually remarkable.

I would love to try Paths of Glory sometime but I hear it has some brutal gotchas in terms of missing breaks in supply lines that bring the whole thing down at a very early stage and its maybe a bit more meaty to learn than TS? I sometimes think I'd like to take on all the other CDGs there seem to be so many good ones now, but when it boils down to it, until I can say Ive totally burned out on TS its just diluting the experience for me so I will try to get more of TS in if anything

I just dont see ASL being in my wheelhouse in terms of balance of abstraction to action, I appreciate the scope of the design and I'm sure its a lot more modular than it seems and things kind of work, but the problem for me is the guts of these kinds of games are about the lack of control and command, the fog of war, the chaos and that kind of rails against the fine grained simulation that games like ASL seem to offer. I want less precise modelling of everything that can happen (though I hear it also has gamey silliness like running out shooting and running back behind cover), so Combat Commander is appealing to me, much easier rules and more of an abstracted experience. Fields of Fire is also of interest but I think if I'm being honest thats a little bit beyond my tolerance for learning rules, actually Up Front fell the same away at first, but even when i realised the basics were not that hard, it just became a case of choosing the much larger and more active CC / CoH community locally than trying to find people to teach and play Up Front.

With Paths of Glory, errors regarding putting guys out of supply and thus dooming them are common with new players. I was lucky to learn from experienced players who at first point out these mistakes specifically, "If you move there then I will go here and your units will be OOS." And then later more obliquely "Supply Warning" without specifics.

Winning thru supply errors is a crummy way to win unless it's late game and vs. an experienced player.

ASL is not for everyone that's for sure. Even though it is somewhat modular it still is a truck load of rules and requires commitment to learn and stay current so you don't need to relearn.

I find the main problem with CDGs, although I do enjoy them, is the need to know every card and know which ones are absolutely critical to play as events. When I play CDgs, I am just bumbling along, interested in event cards and the like but not really knowing if that particular card is important or not. Best idea, I guess, is to learn with another beginner so you can come to conclusions about cards at the same time. PoG is good but suffers from the same issue. Personally, I love Triumph of Chaos which has a PoG engine but fucks it all up. Very good game encapsulating the issues of civil war.

It is widely thought that ASL has perfect information build into it and there is no luck. Nothing could be further from the truth. Full ASL is played with concealment (cannot inspect stacks) and even HIP (where you cannot see your opponents stack at all). Snipers ruin the best laid plans and they are random and not in the players control. Morale checks, where you accidentally shoot yourself in the foot or scare each other so bad some of you run away are, unfortunately, not uncommon. Firing a gun and watching it break down is another annoyance and failing to pick up dropped flame throwers was a curse of mine for a while. I guess they had that napalm jelly all over them. Personally, I find Combat Commander quite trivial and annoying on the randomness level. To try to say that this is true command and control is utterly ridiculous. Controlled routing?? WTF. Solitaire ASL has a full command and control set of rules but I don't play that module at all. It's gamey silliness is in the eyes of non players of ASL, not the actual players themselves. It has the biggest active player base (ignoring kids games like Heroscape) of them all. Easy to find opponents all around the world and NOT necessary to play face to face, as VASL is better than ever. However, it isn't for lovers of Euros, that's for sure.

I still reckon Acquire is a better choice for an overall "number one" which appeals across a wider range of audience

Oh, if you want that,

Monopoly

or (if British)

Escape from Colditz

These are the only games the majority play at family get togethers.

Of course ASL and PoG are not games for the masses. What, you think Repo is stupid?

I am not a number, I am a free man!

ThirstyMan wrote: Oh, if you want that,

Monopoly

or (if British)

Escape from Colditz

These are the only games the majority play at family get togethers.

Of course ASL and PoG are not games for the masses. What, you think Repo is stupid?

I think you're missing the point a bit here, you're allowed to suggest a game that could perhaps be a better alternative to Monopoly or Escape from Colditz (which I dont think anyone has played since the cold winter of 1986 to be honest). I still think I'm winning with Acquire.

Careers and/or MouseTrap or KerPlunkk!

Heroscape

fucking mousetrap, always a piece missing or getting stuck, the bane of every childhood!

Heroscape is actually the most convincing counter to Acquire I've seen so far. Its kind of trashy wargame with some mild euro elements, is great with kids of all ages, including 40s, has minis that dont need painting, terrain thats already painted, scenarios and free for all army point systems.

If I was forced to pick, I'd recommend Acquire or Catan for a #1 all categories sort of game. Maybe if I played Pandemic: Legacy I'd love it, but I haven't tried it yet.

This is just my personal experience, but Heroscape isn't going to fly with most 30+ year-old ladies. I like it a lot, but the wife, either of my sisters-in-law, or any of my female coworkers (with one possible exception) are absolutely not playing it.

I'm honestly just happy that Puerto Rico is out of the top spot.

I know the BGG list is not supposed to act a list for new gamers but it frequently serves as such. I shudder to think of the number of people who bought Puerto Rico JUST because they saw it was #1 on BGG after discovering the site after playing Catan or Carcassonne or something.

Pandemic isn't really my cup of tea and I don't think Pandemic Legacy will change that, but at least it offers something resembling joy: color, excitement, size and scope. More than just one game of dozens or hundreds about making a cranky old guy happy by shipping goods.

The top 10 at BGG kinda sucks. You've got Agricola, Caverna, Castles of Burgundy and PR. Those are all variations on the same general game and rather dull and drab ones at that. At least the Uwe games have Klemens Franz artwork which makes them somewhat more accessible. Games about shipping goods to and around Europe are FINE, and as far as games of that type go, PR is one of the better ones but to say "this is objectively the best gaming can offer" is laughable. To boil the entire hobby down to worker placement and role selection with cubes and drab art... who wants that?

The rest of the top ten is Twilight Struggle, Terra Mystica, Through The Ages, Mage Knight, and Netrunner. I think Terra Mystica is great but that's a super gamey game and not for everyone and I'd never suggest it to someone who was just getting into the hobby. Through the Ages is good but probably the driest civ game imaginable, then Mage Knight, one of, if not the hardest adventure game to digest, and Netrunner, probably the most difficult CCG/LCG to wrap your head around.

I love several of those games but Christ that's a bad list for anyone looking to get into gaming.

The next 15 is much better. Imperial Assault, Power Grid, Tzolk'in (Super slept on game), Dead of Winter, 7 Wonders, Codenames and Dominion. All of those games are colorful and fun and easy to get people into and scream PLAY ME when people see other people playing them.