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Talk about whatever you like related to games that doesn't fit anywhere else.
Certainty vs. Ambiguity
23 Jan 2018 19:02 #261902
by birdman37
Replied by birdman37 on topic Certainty vs. Ambiguity
I was about to post the exact same reply...dysjunct wrote: I thought that was Lew Pulsifer.
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23 Jan 2018 19:09 - 23 Jan 2018 19:12 #261903
by Sevej
Replied by Sevej on topic Certainty vs. Ambiguity
Not only underused, but intentionally so. Publishers need to sell games, and the best games for that purpose are games that are reliable.
Games with contain a high degree of luck and uncertainty tend to have crazy moments, but only once in a while. Most people'd rather settle for something not exciting but delivers most of the time.
I doubt very little designer is not aware of using uncertainty. They just don't want to use it.
(It also because making a reliable game with luck and uncertainty is more difficult)
Games with contain a high degree of luck and uncertainty tend to have crazy moments, but only once in a while. Most people'd rather settle for something not exciting but delivers most of the time.
I doubt very little designer is not aware of using uncertainty. They just don't want to use it.
(It also because making a reliable game with luck and uncertainty is more difficult)
Last edit: 23 Jan 2018 19:12 by Sevej.
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23 Jan 2018 22:41 #261909
by Shellhead
Whoops, my bad. Yeah, it was Pulsifer, not Costikyan.
Replied by Shellhead on topic Certainty vs. Ambiguity
dysjunct wrote: I thought that was Lew Pulsifer.
Whoops, my bad. Yeah, it was Pulsifer, not Costikyan.
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23 Jan 2018 22:55 #261910
by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Certainty vs. Ambiguity
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- Jackwraith
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23 Jan 2018 23:33 #261912
by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Certainty vs. Ambiguity
As with music, my opinion varies widely. I love Go. I have a ridiculous number of books about Go. I'm not a good player, but it's one of the few games that I have on my phone that I semi-regularly play. I desperately want to get better at it, but I don't have anyone regular to play with. My girlfriend, almost strictly a Eurogamer, isn't interested. Me, mostly an ATer when it comes to boardgames, loves the most popular abstract in the world. WTF? But having perfect information doesn't detract from the variety of the games, because the possible moves and combinations are so wide-ranging.
However, I also loved GW games. The hidden information in those games is, of course, the dice. You know what your opponent's army is, what it can do, even the spells and magic items before play begins. Rolling fistfuls of dice is the (literal) variable in those games once they've started (there are, of course, ridiculous numbers of variables in army composition, scenario, etc.) But as I argued to many people back in the day on BGG, the skill and "test of intellect" in those "random" games is bending those odds in your direction. If I get a full-on charge with my Plague Furnace and 8-rank deep unit of Frenzied Plague Monks, i'm probably gonna seriously fuck up whatever I hit. But I have a 50% chance of missing with every roll I make (Monks are WS3.) But if I eliminate the target unit's rank bonus because my Night Runners flank them at the same time because I snuck them forward, then I'm almost certainly winning that combat, regardless of how poorly I roll. I maneuvered my units to not only get the charge, but get it at the right time (with Skaven, no less! Am I a god? Let's ask the Plague Priest on the Furnace...) That's where you're trying to take that hidden information (i.e. how well or not you're going to roll) and bend it to your advantage.
However, I also loved GW games. The hidden information in those games is, of course, the dice. You know what your opponent's army is, what it can do, even the spells and magic items before play begins. Rolling fistfuls of dice is the (literal) variable in those games once they've started (there are, of course, ridiculous numbers of variables in army composition, scenario, etc.) But as I argued to many people back in the day on BGG, the skill and "test of intellect" in those "random" games is bending those odds in your direction. If I get a full-on charge with my Plague Furnace and 8-rank deep unit of Frenzied Plague Monks, i'm probably gonna seriously fuck up whatever I hit. But I have a 50% chance of missing with every roll I make (Monks are WS3.) But if I eliminate the target unit's rank bonus because my Night Runners flank them at the same time because I snuck them forward, then I'm almost certainly winning that combat, regardless of how poorly I roll. I maneuvered my units to not only get the charge, but get it at the right time (with Skaven, no less! Am I a god? Let's ask the Plague Priest on the Furnace...) That's where you're trying to take that hidden information (i.e. how well or not you're going to roll) and bend it to your advantage.
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24 Jan 2018 10:23 - 24 Jan 2018 10:23 #261943
by engelstein
Replied by engelstein on topic Certainty vs. Ambiguity
Would love to play some Go. I am also an aspirational player, who hasn't played a real game in decades. There must be some sort of online/app-based way to play?
Last edit: 24 Jan 2018 10:23 by engelstein.
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24 Jan 2018 13:31 #261986
by RobertB
Replied by RobertB on topic Certainty vs. Ambiguity
Yeah, I remember Dr. Pulsipher. He seemed just about as full of crap as Raph Koster.
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