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Confession: I'm a bad playtester

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24 Jan 2018 19:01 #262083 by hotseatgames
Over the long years of working on City of Lycans, my group and I had it to where we really enjoyed playing it and it felt fairly balanced. However, no publisher wanted to touch it due to game length. I kept changing it and changing it to appease whatever publisher I was dealing with at the time... eventually it morphed into something that my players simply didn't like, and they said they didn't want to play test anymore. No harm done. If someone doesn't want to play, there is no chance of them finding any joy in the game anyway.
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24 Jan 2018 20:29 #262091 by SuperflyPete
KICKSTART THAT SHIT.

That is literally the land of misfit toys.

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24 Jan 2018 20:30 #262092 by SuperflyPete
KICKSTART THAT SHIT.

That is literally the land of misfit toys.

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24 Jan 2018 20:42 - 24 Jan 2018 20:45 #262094 by Disgustipater
Just to echo everyone else, I don't like playtesting. Occasionally I'll get sucked into a session by a friend, but at least that stuff is usually legit (e.g. a Kevin Wilson design).

A decade ago, when I was playing Warmachine and Hordes, I ended up in a playtest group for Privateer Press. At first it was really cool to play all the stuff in development and offer feedback. However, most of our play time was dedicated to playtesting, which started feeling like an obligation and being forced to play specific things. As I wasn't really playing for fun anymore, it kind of killed my interest in the game(s) altogether. It didn't help that it felt like they were ignoring our feedback on seemingly overpowered models that they just released that way anyway. But I'm not a designer, so what do I know? Shortly after that I got out of the game completely.
Last edit: 24 Jan 2018 20:45 by Disgustipater.

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24 Jan 2018 21:28 #262097 by hotseatgames

SuperflyTNT wrote: KICKSTART THAT SHIT.

That is literally the land of misfit toys.


If I wanted my life to completely be absorbed by the nightmare of running a Kickstarter, I'd consider it. But I strongly feel that I would come out the other side of it all and say "nah, wasn't worth it."

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24 Jan 2018 21:31 #262098 by SuperflyPete
Just make coins. You’re literally trading .30 for 1$

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24 Jan 2018 23:30 #262109 by ubarose
I guess I must be an okay playtester, because with every game I've ever playtested, they took my advice. But I always say the same thing. "You'll cut 45 minutes off the playtime if you put the g-d damn information players need right in front of their f*cking faces. Also, you should be able to read the board state in glance."
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25 Jan 2018 11:46 #262131 by SuperflyPete
Quality player aids are the single most effective way to shorten playtime and enhance the user experience.

They’re like tooltips on software

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25 Jan 2018 11:51 - 25 Jan 2018 12:13 #262133 by Mr. White
I once had a dream to design a game based on the Pro-wrestling territory wars of the 70s and 80s. Based on the WWF takeover, but using fake names. It was going to pretty much be a block wargame in style, but instead of armies and such it would be wrestlers, managers, and promoters moving around winning over areas.

I also had a design on Vlad the Impaler and the Ottoman Wars. Again, another block game.

Then, I got on a few playtest lists...hated each experience. Downside, it turned me off the games I was playtesting, upside (I suppose) it made me realize no way would I want to be involved in having others playtesting one of my designs, so have lost all desire to create a boardgame. Seems miserable.

So now, as a creative outlet, I simply organize leagues or campaigns for games others have created and playtested, but throw in a few of my own kinks.
Last edit: 25 Jan 2018 12:13 by Mr. White.
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25 Jan 2018 12:30 #262138 by Shellhead

ubarose wrote: I guess I must be an okay playtester, because with every game I've ever playtested, they took my advice. But I always say the same thing. "You'll cut 45 minutes off the playtime if you put the g-d damn information players need right in front of their f*cking faces. Also, you should be able to read the board state in glance."


I made 8.5 x 11 placemats for my Amber game, with a key to the icons used on the cards, a turn sequence summary, a list of the dozen different actions that a character could take, and a summary of the four types of challenges. Because of the quantity of information on the placemat, I went with readability over visual appeal, so they are drab. Maybe I should look at various player aids that Universal Head has done, to get some ideas.
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25 Jan 2018 13:06 - 25 Jan 2018 13:07 #262142 by SuperflyPete
Worth mentioning that I’ve only said no a very few times, primarily because I knew I’d have nothing meaningful to add because the subject matter or play type is one I detest. Don’t ask me to playtest a card-driven game like Twilight Struggle, don’t ask me to play test a deck builder. It’s almost a guarantee that my first response will be “You should make this into something that’s fun.”

I’d rather be kind and help someone over not being inconvenienced. I consider it charity.
Last edit: 25 Jan 2018 13:07 by SuperflyPete.

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25 Jan 2018 13:26 #262144 by ChristopherMD
I don't like playtesting because I'd prefer to spend my limited gaming time playing completed games. Probably for the best as I'm not good at giving feedback that would be useful. Very much an "I liked it" or "I didn't like it" kind of guy.

I've had people brag to me about playtesting games like they've ascended to a level above Cult of the New and are in the Cult of the Upcoming.
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25 Jan 2018 13:43 #262148 by SuperflyPete
^^^ Now that's funny.

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26 Jan 2018 11:15 #262235 by Jexik
Playtesting is weird, because in order to want to play it enough for the amount that you'll get paid, you need to have irrational exuberance for the product. Which means that you probably won't see it very objectively.

It really depends on the game though. I've largely worked on expansions to games that I already like, which is much different than trying to make an original game work correctly. Simple usability advice like the kind uba talked about is always good though. Obsessing over balance can kind of be a fool's errand, imo, but when you are trying to, you have to be very careful about your assumptions.
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26 Jan 2018 12:20 #262244 by Shellhead

Jexik wrote: Playtesting is weird, because in order to want to play it enough for the amount that you'll get paid, you need to have irrational exuberance for the product. Which means that you probably won't see it very objectively.

It really depends on the game though. I've largely worked on expansions to games that I already like, which is much different than trying to make an original game work correctly. Simple usability advice like the kind uba talked about is always good though. Obsessing over balance can kind of be a fool's errand, imo, but when you are trying to, you have to be very careful about your assumptions.


Great points. One way to deal with balance concerns, at least in a multi-player game, is to make it easy for players to directly interact with each other. If they see someone blatantly ahead, they can go after that player. But then that can lead to ganging up on a leader, unless there are some barriers to direct action, like say the geography of a board.

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