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× A place for boardgame traitors.

Gamers Launch Harassment Campaign Against BioWare

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21 Feb 2012 18:01 #117145 by jeb

Jeff White wrote:

jeb wrote: If you think Penny Arcade is on the wrong side of this, you are mistaken.


Well, if you think Penny Arcade is on the right side, go read about their Dickwolves handling. From where I sit, encouraging fans to heckle and hassle rape victims is in no way the right side. But hey, these women need to learn to take a joke right?
(If you do read about this, I'm not referring to the actual comic strip, but their handling of the criticism.)

You and I sit in different places.
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21 Feb 2012 18:06 #117148 by Gary Sax
Anyone who has played on xbox live in an active shooter for more than 30 minutes and thinks that the videogame subculture is not toxic to women, homosexuals and minorities needs a serious readjustment, full stop. It's no surprise that this kind of misogynistic bullshit comes out of that community. I don't need sweeping generalizations. I've experienced it constantly on my headset and on internet forums.

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21 Feb 2012 18:46 #117158 by tscook

Gary Sax wrote: Anyone who has played on xbox live in an active shooter for more than 30 minutes and thinks that the videogame subculture is not toxic to women, homosexuals and minorities needs a serious readjustment, full stop. It's no surprise that this kind of misogynistic bullshit comes out of that community. I don't need sweeping generalizations. I've experienced it constantly on my headset and on internet forums.


This varies greatly from community to community. If you're doing the pubbie thing on XBL then sure, you get the mouthbreathers that no respectable community will take. If you find a good server community in TF2, CS:S, etc. you'll have pleasant comms.

It's like pick-up gaming at a convention versus game nights with friends. I'm not going to have a furry who doesn't bathe and insists on playing his Mary Sue fursona in a one shot with pregens or a sulky rage quitter who refuses to finish a game in my home playing games with me. World of fucking difference.
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21 Feb 2012 19:11 #117170 by Gary Sax
Well, on one hand, I agree with you. You can forge a group of people who aren't horrible people, it's how I play. On the other hand, it's sort of making my point for me. If you enter the population at large (pubbies, open/random play in WoW), you find the kind of hideous scum of the earth that make up our hobby. From there you have to then make a big effort to find a sub-population/community of non-hateful people to play with, however you want to do that. I suppose you could argue that all the good people have selected themselves out of the general pool, but my overall sense is that there are more hateful misogynists and racist pricks than there are sane people on these services (or otherwise normal seeming people that anonymity expresses their inner racist/sexist/homophobe).

It's worst with shooters on Xbox but I've had the problem to a greater or lesser extent with most of the games I've played (PC, xbox, forums, etc).

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21 Feb 2012 19:17 - 21 Feb 2012 19:24 #117173 by OldHippy
Taking anything on the internet seriously is proof you shouldn't be on the internet. Same goes with playing games on line. Don't do it until you are fully prepared.

The sexism against women is very pronounced on the net and in live gaming. It's obvious, clear, un-apologetic, and easy to spot. I don't like it but at least it's easy to spot.

Same thing goes with bigotry against certain nationalties, sexual preferences (the awful response to that transgendered reviewer on gamespot for example) or colours of skin. It's obvious. Anyone can see it and be warned against it. It's not an accepted part of our society and this article is more proof of that.

The sexism that goes on from gaming companies towards young men is subtle and in my opinion maybe even more insidious as a result. No one spots it, we all accept it, and no on seems to be writing big articles about it. I see a new article on sexism in gaming written for women every couple of months. It's a known and acknowleged problem. I've never seen one the opposite way and I know it's there. I just don't think even the fans being treated that way see it. Ever. Even after they've been soled a copy of Duke Nuke'em they still don't see how the companies expectations of them are about as low as could be. They're pandering in a way that would be inexcusable if the games were aimed at women.

I think that the same attitude that's condesceneding towards male gamers is encouraging these problems where women get brow beaten and teased on line. It encourages young men to think they should be sex addicted gangsters when they grow up watching out for their own race and treating women poorly. We have to stop supporting that before the problem will go away.
Last edit: 21 Feb 2012 19:24 by OldHippy.
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21 Feb 2012 19:45 #117183 by Sagrilarus

JonJacob wrote: Taking anything on the internet seriously is proof you shouldn't be on the internet. Same goes with playing games on line. Don't do it until you are fully prepared.


That's fine until some of those people on the Internet bring the aggression to your home and threaten your livelihood with it, which appears to be what's happening here.

The boys conducting themselves this way need to be reminded that they aren't nearly as anonymous on the Internet as they think they are. Outing a few of them in a very public way might sober up the party in a hurry.

S.

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21 Feb 2012 19:49 #117186 by OldHippy

Sagrilarus wrote:

JonJacob wrote: Taking anything on the internet seriously is proof you shouldn't be on the internet. Same goes with playing games on line. Don't do it until you are fully prepared.


That's fine until some of those people on the Internet bring the aggression to your home and threaten your livelihood with it, which appears to be what's happening here.

The boys conducting themselves this way need to be reminded that they aren't nearly as anonymous on the Internet as they think they are. Outing a few of them in a very public way might sober up the party in a hurry.

S.


The point was it started on the net. Then got taken outside of it. Did we learn nothing from Boxxy? Jessy Slaughter? or encyclopedia dramatica? This is prbably the 8 thousandth time I've heard this kind of story. Stay off the net until you can accept that people will call your home, or have 100 pizza's delivered to you, or stalk you at school plays because they think you're pretty. The net is not a safe place.

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21 Feb 2012 20:01 - 21 Feb 2012 20:02 #117192 by Sagrilarus

JonJacob wrote: The point was it started on the net. Then got taken outside of it. Did we learn nothing from Boxxy? Jessy Slaughter? or encyclopedia dramatica? This is prbably the 8 thousandth time I've heard this kind of story. Stay off the net until you can accept that people will call your home, or have 100 pizza's delivered to you, or stalk you at school plays because they think you're pretty. The net is not a safe place.


This woman's job essentially lives on the net. The woman's livelihood and security are being threatened and the response is that she knew the risks? How is the lynch mob off the hook on this?

S.
Last edit: 21 Feb 2012 20:02 by Sagrilarus.

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21 Feb 2012 20:16 #117202 by wolvendancer
Misogyny sucks. Homophobia sucks. Also, Jennifer Hepler sucks.

This 'mob' is obviously composed of different groups of people, and it's a shame that few can see that. The 'teh women and gays are stealing our games' people have been bitching about Bioware games for a long time, and they've just piled on here. The 'Hepler Sucks' people are blunt and rude and should not be resorting to personal attacks, but they do have some substantive points. I mean, do we really want game writers / designer who proudly claim that they don't like playing games? Obviously I don't think her security should be threatened in any way, but her job? Fine by me. Nobody has a right to be bad at their job.

Me? I love the gays and the women and I think 95% of the Bioware writing is abysmal - and this is coming from a guy who was offered a job writing for Bioware Austin in my last year of grad school. For what it's worth, the pay was decent, the hours complete shit, and I would have driven a railroad spike into my forehead if I'd had to write SW:TOR quest dialogue 10 hours a day.

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21 Feb 2012 20:20 #117204 by Ken B.
Just to be clear, we are one or two "blame the victims" posts away from this heading straight to Bitchfest, or the offending parts being dumped into He Fucking Dick and Then Bullshit.


Sorry, just heading that one off at the pass. Just because we have the image of a "say anything" website, doesn't mean we'll ever be a haven for hate speech. This is just a general statement and aimed at no one in particular.
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21 Feb 2012 20:44 - 21 Feb 2012 20:45 #117217 by Wetworks
Well Bioware aren't doing themselves any favors, they're feeding the flames.

Jennifer Hepler tweeted, "I just figure they're jealous that I get to have both a vagina AND a games industry job, and they can't get either."

Followed by tweets from the GM of Bioware,

https://twitter.com/#!/AarynFlynn/status/171415952909533184

i.imgur.com/iXZJT.png
Last edit: 21 Feb 2012 20:45 by Wetworks.

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21 Feb 2012 20:49 #117220 by Black Barney
lol, those tweets are great! (from Aaron Flynn). What a cool video game name too. Reminds me of some video game movie, about video games, with lightcycles and stuff. I can't put my finger on it. Wing Commander?

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21 Feb 2012 20:56 #117224 by VonTush
Reading about these tussles in the video game community reminds me of three things: 1) I'm so glad I am not part of the cesspool that is online video game culture; 2) It makes me grateful for the fort here and that there are at least some places online where you can have discussion and discourse that doesn't dissolve into expletive heavy insults; 3) People are a bunch of fucking arsehole fuck-knuckle cockfinger idiots.

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21 Feb 2012 21:17 #117235 by OldHippy

Ken B. wrote: Just to be clear, we are one or two "blame the victims" posts away from this heading straight to Bitchfest, or the offending parts being dumped into He Fucking Dick and Then Bullshit.


Sorry, just heading that one off at the pass. Just because we have the image of a "say anything" website, doesn't mean we'll ever be a haven for hate speech. This is just a general statement and aimed at no one in particular.


Kind of a cop out there Ken. You should pick someone in particular otherwise we don't know what you mean. I am the closest to "blame the victim" as you call it. I don't blame the victim though. I think the very real problem of treating young boys like idiot's is not getting discussed and I think posts like this discourage us from looking at the whole problem not just this one aspect of it... and by all means, move it to bitchfest if you like it makes no difference to me.

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21 Feb 2012 21:27 #117239 by Bullwinkle

JonJacob wrote: Kind of a cop out there Ken. You should pick someone in particular otherwise we don't know what you mean.

I have to agree with this. I can't see anyone even approaching what you're saying.
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