Sagrilarus wrote:


I have nothing against Capcom putting it together, just them allowing this Aris guy to stay in a "leadership" position. This was a marketing tool for them - I just don't feel that this Aris guy should have been championing ignorance, intolerance and abuse in a promotional tool.

Rliyen wrote:


This is the kind of stuff I hear and see daily---definitely on xbox live and frequently on internet forums. The argument in the previous thread was "well, you gotta find a place where they aren't." I do, but it still upsets me that my assumption has to be (in the anonymous world of internet and gaming) that everyone is a heinous, racist, sexist, asshole. Of course these assholes are censored by social desirability in day to day life, but that just makes it all the more disturbing since this stuff is really lying underneath it.

VonTush wrote:


He IS the promotional tool. C'mon guys, you know how this works. They get paid by the click. They're trying to get their numbers up.

S.

Oh man, where do ya start with this shit?

I dread the world my daughter is going to grow up in. Too many boys today seem like they can't talk to or about women outside of the context of pornography, violence, and denigration.

Video game "culture", at least certain parts of it, foster this. I saw this thing about "epic" TV moments the other day and one of them was something from G4's Attack of the Show. The empty-headed hostess they have on there to put a pair of tits in front of horny, undersexed teens dressed up like a French maid and jumped into a vat of whipped cream. What a wonderful role model for young girls, and what a great way to represent women in gaming. IMO, this person (Olivia Munn, is that her name?) is no better than a street hooker.

Then there's this business with putting Jessica Chobot, an opportunistic carpetbagger with no credentials or discernable talent, in Mass Effect 3 as a "romanceable character". Again, just a sex puppet for teenage boys. You go, girl.

I've seen this a lot in these shows, at least from what I've seen. Women on AotS and in other video game outlets are shown to have vulgar, self-deprecating humor that appeases men who can see the female as "one of the boys". The funny thing is that they're put up there as sex objects,and the irony is that most teenage boys don't want to be with an actual woman that has feminine traits and psychology- they want to be with another teenage boy with breasts that likes video games too.

It's shameful, the way women are depicted in and around video games. Games that have very positive, human portrayals of women like Catherine or even Bayonetta (yes, she's actually very respectfully depicted and both games are sexy without being sexist) are few and far between. There's always this apologist filter applied- it's OK to show a woman as being an abnormally endowed sex doll...as long as she can fight like a man. Which is a sexist statement to begin with.

Then there's the Japanese pedophilia thing, which is particularly troubling and always excused with nonsense like "they're actually adults even though they're wearing school uniforms and licking lollipops with pigtails in a classroom", which is a whole different branch of disturbing, sexist behavior that denigrates women.

As for this whole trash talking thing, any time someone starts bitching about censorship in this kind of context, they're immediately full of shit. Have some fucking CLASS. Just because you CAN say something doesn't mean you should.

It's all part of the teardown culture that the Internet has fostered, and the bullying angle is a part of that. Strength is shown by how mercilessly you can tear something apart along gender, race, or whatever particular line you choose. The prevailing crudeness in culture- which you see in films chock full of pee pee/poo poo humor and TV shows where there's more writing about body parts than characters, let alone popular music with very misogynist lyrics (I heard something the other day that had a line about "beating that pussy down"- class act, whover that is).

There's also the issue that talking like this makes people- particularly young men- feel empowered. Because they're told not to. Simple psychology. It's a display, "look at how independent I am, I can say whatever I want because I'm such a bad ass". It's like these idiotic fuckers that whine about things being "politically correct"...just have some god damned class and you don't have to worry about what is/isnt' politically correct in the first place.

I'm all for trash talking, and if I were competing in something like that I'd love to get in there and swap verbal assaults...but I know where to draw the line, and I know what's funny and what's seriously hurtful and disrespectful.

I appreciate everyone's comments, but I want to refocus the debate a little bit.

The issue is not (only) that there is this enormous dickbag in 'fighting game culture'. The issue is not (only) that he was put into a position of power and not immediately removed when he began spouting offhanded racism and mentally abusing women under his 'leadership' for the crime of being a woman. The issue is that a large minority (at least) of that particular gaming subgroup supports the shit spewing from this guy's mouth. That's a much bigger, much stickier, issue.

Of course what this guy does is bullying, but I emphatically reject the notion that it is "just" bullying. Like anything social, bullying takes place in a context, in an environment. It is never 'just about itself', and the fact that these are women and minorities being abused - the fact that women and minorities are vulnerable to being abused in this way - is important and needs to be addressed.

EDIT: All of which was more or less said by Matt Thrower on another site, now that I read his post. So there you go.

I'm glad you touched on class Michael. It was something I was going to mention in my post, but I got cut short by someone needing me at work (what's up with that?!). Anyway, I too am disgusted by "the prevailing crudeness in culture" and worry about the world in which my two daughters are going to grow up in.

wolvendancer wrote:


The question is. Why and where does it come from? When Micheal talks about that woman dressing up like a french maid and jumping in a pit of whip cream it should be obvious to everyone (as if it wasn't already) that these people aren't rebels, they are products of the culture we all live in and contribute to whether we like it or not. These people are not bad apples, they're probably fine people outside of their headsets and posts but the world around us actually encourages them to behave this way.

We encourage them to behave this way with shitty movies like Resident Evil or Sucker Punch, we encourage them to behave this way through game design (including Mass Effect and it's shitty romance options), we encourage them to behave this way by giving Charlie Sheen shitloads of press for banging porn stars and doing drugs. It's us, always us and I would bet money that many of the people who bemoan this attitude in gaming have friends, family members, and yes, even children who behave this way and they just don't know it.

Let's look in our own backyards a bit.

I don't want to get self-righteous on these people any more then I want to critisize Aztecs for sacrificying people in order for the sun to rise. This is the world we've created and let them thrive in. We only have ourselves to blame.

I didn't know about the French maid jump. We have tremendous power as consumers of media now. I don't watch crap. I can tailor my direct TV to block all crap and just watch the Hallmark channel if I want to or use my Roku and stream Leave it to beaver all day! Its funny George Bush Sr. said years ago that familes need to start acting more like the Waltons instead of the Simpsons and here you are the bad asses of gaming finally admitting that it has even gone too far for you!

Its gonna get worse but you dont have to support it. Dont buy games that depict women in a bad light. Don't watch shows that do the same thing. Instead of watching sluts on G4 support decent family gaming shows like Surfing with Steve.

Sag'g got it right, it's a media problem at the heart. Fabricated outrageous controversy keeps people glued, which keeps ratings up. This is just another outlet for that. People seem to like watching or reading stuff that makes them pissed off so they can feel self-righteous when bleating on about how wrong it is. Kids watching that crap has been a complete disaster, but the media doesn't give a shit as long as the bottom line is positive. A lack of decent children programs is another problem entirely.

The solution is simple for me. Ever since I've seen nothing but mindless crap on the television, I cancelled cable and just pick up the decent shows on DVD as they come out. No more bullshit to watch, and it sends a message. If more people did that, we'd see improvement. It's not gonna happen though.

I mean seriously, there were only a few channels I watched before I cancelled - Discovery, Life, A&E, TSN. Those used to have some decent programs. Once those stations started pumping out the same shit as all the others, that was it. News has been shit since the Runaway Bride (tm) got more coverage than our country at war. It was bad before, but that for me was the ludicrous event that broke the camel's back.

Just do it. Encourage your friends to do it. Don't follow the herd, don't be a lemming!