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Warhammer Quest iOS info

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23 May 2013 10:06 #152712 by wice
Replied by wice on topic Re: Warhammer Quest iOS info

Bullwinkle wrote: I'm glad they're not showing the dice rolls. Rodeo knows how to use the medium properly to express results without wasting time or screen space on things the computer can handle. Anyone who's played Hunters 2 already has a taste of what it'll be like, since it's basically the same mechanic.


Hiding the dice not only saves time (which, BTW, I have no idea why I would want it to, I'm not in a hurry), but also
1. obfuscates the odds of success/failure before the combat (one of the best things about tabletop games is the transparency of mechanics, which allows the deliberation of odds before rolling the dice, and that's, for me, half of the fun), and
2. deprives the player of the enjoyment of the sound of rolling dice, and of the excitement and mini-catharsis of waiting for and seeing the results.

I have already mentioned it before, but I have played with an unofficial PC version of HeroQuest, and it was my most boring experience ever. Without the explicit display of dice it felt nothing more than grinding. Move, click attack, see who won, rinse and repeat. I would rather play Yahtzee in real life, with real dice, than that piece of shit.

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23 May 2013 14:33 #152733 by metalface13
I dunno, the dice rolls in Talisman Prologue can get a little tedious when it's clear you win no matter what the monster rolls. There's not a lot else going on in Talisman so you need the dice rolls, don't think it's necessary in WHQ. Do we need to see the card flips for tiles and monsters, too? I'm perfectly OK with this being a video game based on a board game. I don't need it to be a 1:1 conversion of a board game experience.

Today's big news: It's releasing next Thursday, May 30! For $4.99/£2.99. Not bad for an OOP game that fetches $200 on ebay.

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23 May 2013 17:16 #152754 by TheDukester
I have no desire at all to see my digital die rolls. In every iOS game with dice that I own, the dice look cheesy, roll for far too long, have goofy sound-effects, and are just generally annoying. None of it feels "real" or "immersive" in the slightest.

If given the choice, I always set die rolls to "off." If WQ doesn't even let me have a choice, I'm totally fine with that.
The following user(s) said Thank You: metalface13, Bullwinkle

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23 May 2013 20:29 #152781 by Bullwinkle

wice wrote: ...

I don't know if you've played Hunters 2, but it tells you the odds of your success at hitting, and has animations that take a brief moment before you hit that covers the same sense of anticipation. Plus enemies react to being hit. Don't know if it's the same in WHQ, but it is the same engine.

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23 May 2013 23:40 #152794 by ioticus
Well if that's true that you don't even have the option to see the die rolls then that really pisses me off. I never played the board game but I know enough about these kind of games that they don't understand their target audience if they're going to take away one of the things that people find enjoyable about games like this; namely, being able to see the odds and cheer or groan after seeing your good or bad luck rolls, as the case may be.

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24 May 2013 04:42 #152815 by metalface13
Sheesh. An experienced developer gets the license to bring a dungeon crawl classic that's been out of print for almost 20 years, updates the heroes and monsters to fit with the current edition of Warhammer Fantasy universe, makes the visuals of the game look amazing, streamlines it so you don't have to wait for things like each unit to finish its movement before giving orders to the next guy and people start bitching about not seeing dice rolls. I think Rodeo knows exactly who their target audience is. If you want to see some dice bounce around, go chuck some on your table.
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24 May 2013 09:48 #152821 by wice
Replied by wice on topic Re: Warhammer Quest iOS info

metalface13 wrote: Sheesh. An experienced developer gets the license to bring a dungeon crawl classic that's been out of print for almost 20 years, updates the heroes and monsters to fit with the current edition of Warhammer Fantasy universe, makes the visuals of the game look amazing, streamlines it so you don't have to wait for things like each unit to finish its movement before giving orders to the next guy and people start bitching about not seeing dice rolls. I think Rodeo knows exactly who their target audience is. If you want to see some dice bounce around, go chuck some on your table.


OK, let me understand this: if a boardgame was converted into a videogame by experienced developers, looks good visually, and is streamlined at places where streamlining doesn't take away anything from the experience, then no one should be allowed to feel disappointed by the streamlining of parts that takes away from the experience for them. Everybody should feel exactly the same about it as you do, or, if they don't, then they just should shut up and go play the OOP boardgame that they have no chance to get anywhere, at least not under 200 dollars.

Is that what you are trying to say?

BTW, Bullwinkle: I haven't played Hunters 2 yet, but in the gameplay videos on YouTube I don't see any clue about the chances of hit/failure in combat. The same goes for the Warhammer Quest gameplay.

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24 May 2013 12:58 - 24 May 2013 18:03 #152835 by Bullwinkle

wice wrote: BTW, Bullwinkle: I haven't played Hunters 2 yet, but in the gameplay videos on YouTube I don't see any clue about the chances of hit/failure in combat. The same goes for the Warhammer Quest gameplay.

In Hunters 2, that info is in your character profile. It's weapon-based, but can also be modified by your special abilities, so you know going into combat what your chances are. I don't know what they're doing in WHQ, since I haven't played it yet.
Last edit: 24 May 2013 18:03 by Bullwinkle.

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24 May 2013 16:36 #152852 by metalface13

wice wrote:

metalface13 wrote: OK, let me understand this: if a boardgame was converted into a videogame by experienced developers, looks good visually, and is streamlined at places where streamlining doesn't take away anything from the experience, then no one should be allowed to feel disappointed by the streamlining of parts that takes away from the experience for them. Everybody should feel exactly the same about it as you do, or, if they don't, then they just should shut up and go play the OOP boardgame that they have no chance to get anywhere, at least not under 200 dollars.

Is that what you are trying to say?


Would I prefer it if the world consisted entirely of clones of myself? Yes. I think that highly of myself.

What I'm trying to say is that this is a video game. Not a board game. It's based on a board game, but it's still a video game. The beauty of a digital format is all those calculations can run under the hood. Is calculating the odds part of the game? Yeah. Does it have to be represented by dice rolling? Can't a simple "66 percent chance to hit" suffice? If you have to show dice, then you have to show character stats, which means the UI gets clogged up by showing your full party stats on the screen or some kind of sliding trays or you have to dig through some menus to pull it up. Cutting out the dice on the screen really streamlines a lot of that.

Getting upset about no virtual dice just seems silly. What about a virtual character sheet and pencil so you can use the touch screen to handwrite in your stats, skills, experience, treasure etc? How far do you have to take this physical to digital conversion? You don't see Neverwinter Nights players get upset about not seeing a d20 bounce across the screen. You also don't see fans of the Starcraft board game upset FFG didn't include little plastic mice for players to frantically click while making their moves.

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24 May 2013 17:11 #152853 by metalface13
Joel Goodman from Playdek said some stuff in a recent Q&A with Pocket Tactics that I think fits well in this thread (these are just bits I thought were relevant):

So I’m the one — for better or for worse — who’s been trying to instil the idea that we make video games here. We love hobby gaming, we love board games — but we make video games. We have to marry the two. Once those board game rulesets depart from the physical plane and enter into the digital space, we’ve created something different. ...

... Part of that balance beam I was referring to before: we do not want Agricola to be unappealing to someone who’s never played a hobby game before, or ever seen a board game before in their lives. We want people to be intrigued. ...

... our Agricola has to be completely, 100% literally true to the rules of the board game. Uwe wouldn’t allow us to change a rule or how anything was played. So at the very least, this game is Agricola. Somebody who’s been playing this every week for the last umpteen years at their game night will instantly recognise this as Agricola.

It’s great to have this core audience, this super passionate audience. There’s no bad advice really — you can always take something away from what people say and it’s wonderful to have somebody who’s passionate enough to be worried that if you don’t literally transplant the exact board over onto digital. To those guys I say: I respect your passion. I appreciate it. Thank you. But from a Playdek perspective though, we’ll never do that again. We’re forging forward to create incredible experiences in hobby gaming but we’ll also take advantage of the platform. We make video games. ...

... But with Agricola, we could have scanned the board in, so to speak, laid down the rules in a PDF and I’m sure we’d have quite a few players who would be very content and even some who will be upset that that’s not what we’ve done. But as Playdek, we’re trying to advance the medium.

That said, when you open up [the Agricola app] you’re going to recognise it if you’re a hardcore fan. That’s the board there. Going back to our discussions with Uwe and Hanno, they were ecstatic. They said to us, ‘please free the game from the cardboard.’ The cardboard is just a constraint that doesn’t exist in the digital world and there’s no reason to stay slaved to those constraints when you’re making a video game. ...


Read the full thing (if you haven't already) at pockettactics.com/2013/05/22/the-agricol...ks-biggest-game-yet/ . It's pretty interesting.

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