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Kickstarter: A Cautionary Tale (Doom/Atlantic City)

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25 Jul 2013 14:16 #157129 by VonTush
I found it interesting to see that Z-Man was interested in publishing at one point according to the designer's blog. But it was dropped when Z-Man was sold. Maybe there is a bit more to the game than a Monopoly clone?

As far as all the other KS stuff...HA! I do loves me a good boardgame scandal. Up Front, Merchant of Venus and now this! For sure this is the gold age of boardgames.

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25 Jul 2013 14:19 - 25 Jul 2013 14:19 #157131 by Schweig!

Michael Barnes wrote: So by you guys' rationalization of this, I could run a million dollar Kickstarter for Milch und Gherkin, let it sit for a year, and then turn up with an update (drafted from a resort in Ibizia) and say "sorry guys, it didn't work out. I tried!" And then expect backers to write off the money they spent in anticipation of the product and stretch bonuses as a "bad investment" with no recourse because what? "Them's the breaks, kid"?

Well, yeah, if you did that, of course you'd be a sleazy mountebank, but that doesn't excuse the stupidity of the people who handed you the money.

I could help you pick out a nice place in Poland.
Last edit: 25 Jul 2013 14:19 by Schweig!.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ubarose, Rliyen, Sagrilarus, SuperflyPete

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25 Jul 2013 14:30 #157133 by SuperflyPete

Sagrilarus wrote: Well Pete, we all know you could publish X-Wing for $14.95. You want to call this guy 100% dishonest and 0% stupid knock yourself out. He thought he was going to get a game with pewter pieces tooled, produced and shipped for $35k from a cold start with no experience in the industry. This thing smelled like fish before anyone backed it.

"No experience in the industry" is not exactly a valid excuse. Google "Pewter Miniature Manufacturer" and you get what you need to take the next step, which is getting a bid and learning what each manufacturer requires. Then Google "Board Game Manufacturing" and the top 3 companies appear, almost as if it were magic. You make phone calls, ask questions, and then get a bid. For fuck's sake, I'm not "IN" the boardgame industry and I had both Panda and Grand Prix bid a game project against one another. All of this is horseshit. If he's capable of producing a Kickstarter Project and using the internet, he can abso-fucking-lutely figure out who to call to get this shit managed. It's not THAT hard. The hardest part is finding artists and graphic designers, and if you recall, this was a developed game by a third party. So, he didn't even have to design the game!

Don't miss the bigger point guys -- it's a lot easier for someone to steal your money when you electronically deposit it into their account. Nerd raging and calling for legal action is fine, but learn the lesson: don't be a chump to a guy with a pretty face. Move on and take the lesson from your loss. He may have been 100% dishonest, but the backers are at least 51% stupid. What you do in the future is under your control, change your behavior to get better results.

S.


ROGER THAT. This is why I posted it, as a CAUTIONARY TALE. Luckily, I doubt any of us got burned on the deal, but I just wanted to remind everyone that it's not just "a bad game", it's "no game" that people have to worry about.


Oh, one other note. He actually had 125K (Kickstarter and Amazon take 25K of that), or 100K$ NET dollars to produce LESS than 1,000 copies and a couple hundred T-Shirts.

So, it's more like 100$ per unit.

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25 Jul 2013 14:37 - 25 Jul 2013 14:39 #157134 by Schweig!

SuperflyTNT wrote: Then Google "Board Game Manufacturing" and the top 3 companies appear, almost as if it were magic.

Then Google "Filter Bubble" and learn how your search results are not identical to those of a different person entering the same term.
Last edit: 25 Jul 2013 14:39 by Schweig!.

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25 Jul 2013 14:41 - 25 Jul 2013 14:47 #157135 by Sagrilarus

SuperflyTNT wrote: Oh, one other note. He actually had 125K (Kickstarter and Amazon take 25K of that), or 100K$ NET dollars to produce LESS than 1,000 copies and a couple hundred T-Shirts.


Yeah, and I think that's when his outlook changed. You don't try so hard when you have a bucket of cash sitting in the back room. "Hey, I only needed $28k to do this, I can quit my job and become a game publisher! I'm livin' the dream!"

To some extent I see Kickstarter games as being more like buying games was like in the 70s than modern games today. You have about the same amount of information -- the box and maybe a promo page in the store or a catalog entry with three or four sentences. Ad on TV. You had no clue back then if the game is any good and to a large extent you were taking a flyer when you purchased. "Luftwaffe . . . hmm . . . these are the guys that published PanzerBlitz and that was pretty cool . . . $19.95 . . . great cover." You were buying a pig in a poke.

The timing has changed for sure since they've (somehow) convinced us to pay up front, but a Kickstarter page is about the equivalent of a TV ad plus some slicksheet material.

S.
Last edit: 25 Jul 2013 14:47 by Sagrilarus.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Shellhead, Ska_baron, Rliyen, Msample

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25 Jul 2013 15:53 #157146 by Gary Sax

Sagrilarus wrote: To some extent I see Kickstarter games as being more like buying games was like in the 70s than modern games today. You have about the same amount of information -- the box and maybe a promo page in the store or a catalog entry with three or four sentences. Ad on TV. You had no clue back then if the game is any good and to a large extent you were taking a flyer when you purchased. "Luftwaffe . . . hmm . . . these are the guys that published PanzerBlitz and that was pretty cool . . . $19.95 . . . great cover." You were buying a pig in a poke.


I can kind of see this. The only thing that it exists simultaneously with a normal market where you aren't flying blind. It's interesting that people are willing to use kickstarter even with that.

Not to get too meta on you, but it reminds me of the overall trend in the past 100 years tilting responsibilities to consumers. I mean, shit, in the old west you almost always just had a running tab at the general store that they just had to trust you'd pay!

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25 Jul 2013 18:16 - 25 Jul 2013 18:28 #157165 by ZMan

Ken B. wrote:
Not so sure about Alien Frontiers...I think that one was an example of needing a way to raise the cash to get it published. It is definitely a quality game but if I remember correctly a couple of major publishers had already passed on it? (Memory fuzzy here.)


****Actually I was going to do it _after their first run was published_ but I asked them why don't they do it themselves - and then they chose to do it themselves (didn't think they would use KS again).
Last edit: 25 Jul 2013 18:28 by ZMan. Reason: clarification on timing

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26 Jul 2013 02:58 #157186 by Ken B.

ZMan wrote:

Ken B. wrote:
Not so sure about Alien Frontiers...I think that one was an example of needing a way to raise the cash to get it published. It is definitely a quality game but if I remember correctly a couple of major publishers had already passed on it? (Memory fuzzy here.)


****Actually I was going to do it _after their first run was published_ but I asked them why don't they do it themselves - and then they chose to do it themselves (didn't think they would use KS again).



Then I stand corrected, I've probably mangled discussion about a different game in my mind. Thanks, Zev!

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26 Jul 2013 04:48 #157188 by Sevej
I don't think I can exactly blame "people stupidity" 100% here. I read somewhere that the game designer is not nobody. He's got industry experience, with SJG nonetheless, among other things. And he was duped by the publisher.

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26 Jul 2013 14:29 #157195 by SuperflyPete
The designer had no part in this; he ceded rights to the publisher in the hope of a percentage. The publisher is the one at fault, this Polish guy or whatever.

:)

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