Another KS bites the dust...

www.kickstarter.com/projects/213177064/asylum-playing-cards

Read the comments. This guy is in deep shit. Driving a Benz (although that's not what it used to be) and buying 400$ cigars while telling people he's broke.

Yet another KS failure to deliver.

Strange to see people demanding a refund as if they actually bought something. Oh, so sorry, you backed an idea. You did not make a purchase.

Where is the stuff about Benzes and cigars?

I'll say this for Kickstarter, it does seem like cases like this are the exception.

"Receive ONE (1) Asylum deck with free US shipping."

Looks like a product was promised to me.

@Dave: www.facebook.com/groups/KickstarterBestP...=group_comment_reply

"Or if you were an unlucky backer of the Asylum Playing cards, you can watch the guy you backed drive his Mercedes benz to the cigar club and post the $400 bottle of bourbon he drank. Oh, but, there was a problem in the company, and there's no money to complete the project. "

Asking Tim about the source myself.

repoman wrote: Strange to see people demanding a refund as if they actually bought something. Oh, so sorry, you backed an idea. You did not make a purchase.

You're confused about how Kickstarter generally works. Yes, Neal Stephenson's bullshit Kickstarter was about backing an idea that might later get developed into a product. But the majority of Kickstarters are actually offering a product, and if a given Kickstarter is funded, they take your money and promise to deliver a product. The fuckers are committing fraud if they fail to deliver after taking your money. In the U.S., this is totally covered under the Uniform Commercial Code. The fact that Kickstarter is online doesn't magically confer immunity from the regulations imposed by the UCC.

I'm guessing there's going to have to be a big pow wow in the next 4-5 months between the credit card companies, paypal, etc and kickstarter to put the rules down on exactly what's going to happen (i.e. NO REFUND in giant letters or something).

For what it's worth, I finally received my copy of Last Frontier: the Vesuvius Incident, from a Kickstarter to revive three classic science fiction boardgames. The final product is very nice, and superior in every way to the original game. The impressive part is that the guy who ran that Kickstarter lost $10,000 but still shipped out every single game. That's a guy I will definitely trust the next time I think about kickstarting a game.

It's really, really hazy about what you're actually getting in exchange for backing a Kickstarter project. When you are told that you will be recieving Product X for backing at Y dollars, then I think that is a clear indication that regardless of the terminology that you are purchasing a product and you are giving your money to the entity in question under the assumption that you will be recieving product in exchange for money.

All of these "you're just backing the idea" disclaimers are not going to hold up if one or more of these "projects" winds up in court. When I look at this Kickstarter that is offering specific products if it meets the overall goal, I think I can reasonably expect to recieve the product and I'd be willing to bet that a jury would rule the same

If these items are not provided to the backers, then it is fraud, plain and simple. Don't let the terminology and Kickstarter-only "rules" confuse you.

I think there is some confusion on the language and nature of Kickstarter.

Think of it like this, Kickstarter is, as a concept, about backing and supporting projects, NOT "buying something". However, you are also expected to deliver on any rewards you promised in exchange for that support. So you're not really failing to deliver a purchased product so much as failing to live up to an agreement you made with an investor. (It just might happen to involve a product.)

Sticky fucking wickets!

Legomancer wrote: Where is the stuff about Benzes and cigars?

I'll say this for Kickstarter, it does seem like cases like this are the exception.

There were tons of backers investigating the life of EDWARD J. POLCHLOPEK, III AKA "Ed Nash" and his company Altius Management, especially after the artist reached out and told us that he never got a cent, and the US Playing Card Company said that they had never heard of the guy.

Some of the many results from various blogs/social networks were gathered (although this is an incomplete list)








foursquare.com/.../5160b6aae4b033963802a41c ...

This is the information given to me by the disgruntled FB group member.

The thing is, the vagary about "buying something" and "backing a project" is exactly the kind of thing that is going to eventually wind up in a court case. It's wilfully tricky and potentially deceptive language. And when someone says "we will give you this product if you give us this money" and uses products to solicit said money and doesn't deliver, then the semantics of Kickstarter terminology no longer matter. Because it becomes fraud. If you follow through on what you're saying you're taking money for, you're good. No problem. Lots of projects fit that description. But there are more and more that do not.

Doesn't matter if you're just "promising" something to an "investor"...but wait, you're not really "investors", you're "backers"? Are these supposed "promises" legally binding or not? Why can a member NOT recieve a refund of funds when it is made clear that the "project" money will not be used to complete it? Why would anyone give a single cent to project where there is ZERO accountability or very specific ROI?

Seriously, if I were a lawyer, I would be all over this shit. I'm telling you all, it is just a matter of time before a high profile KS flop/swindle gets into court and Kickstarer is forced to DRASTICALLY change their business model. Or go away.

Michael Barnes wrote: Seriously, if I were a lawyer, I would be all over this shit.

Lawyers don't sue people that have run out of money.

This is a con man's dream, stupid money sent remotely, and I'm not talking about the greasy kind from Miami. You could have the money routed to a Russian account for protection, then use the funds to develop IP that you backers don't get a slice of and when you're done you say "we ran out of money before the manufacturing could be paid for!" What a racket.

S.

I have not been interested in any game offered on kickstarter to pay money in advance. i am not willing to navigate through ad copy and hype and promises etc to find out if there might be a good game there or to make guesses anout whether the people behind the project are serious or not.

It's easier for me to file KS under the nasty idioms A fool and his money are soon parted or Barnum's There's a sucker born every minute. Not judging anyone happy to take the risk,, this is simply SHORTHAND for me to stay away. I guess KS has helped see some interesting games see the light of day but if the whole thing goes away tomorrow, I won't be sorry.

I put my trust in companies like Zman (when it was led by Zman) with a track record, people who worked hard for their success and raised their own capital at their own risk, not flash in the pan gold rushes or snake oil salesmen.

It doesn't help KS that the ratio of crap to good ideas on KS is way out of whack. Realm coins, personalised figs and tons of other shit we dn't need to enjoy playing games. I will buy a personalised fig of Black Barney though and a fugly Barnes Fall singer guy if they sre produced, Also somebody KS Milch und gerkin while you're at it.

Kickstarter would do well to get ahead of this and split its website into two parts: a patronage half (where you donate money to fund art/movie/music projects and get a tote bag or whatever as a reward) and a commerce half.